Dave J Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 16 hours ago, TRO said: Dave I feel I have to answer, but don't really want to because I am so enjoying Dean Smiths Tenure. I get that you don't like/rate him...but I struggle with your reasoning. We were 90 odd minutes away, One goal resigned us to a life outside the Premier League as disappointing as that was....24 wins in the season and 72 goals scored and 42 against 83 points.....I concede the football now is far more convincing and what has been achieved by Dean is remarkable under the circumstances. The reasoning I struggle with is " Miserable Failure"....Do you mean it was miserable for you, because you was expecting to go up?.....or do you mean the failure was of a miserable nature? Personally, I would describe a season like the one where we managed 3 wins under Lambert as a "miserable failure" not missing out by 2 goals in a final.....I would call that just Failure, without the adjective. PS In all my days watching Villa since 1959......I have never expected promotion, always hoped for it, such is the topsy turvy world of football where so many factors can trip you up....I don't expect it now and we are on the back of the greatest run in our History, because football has twists and turns, injuries,suspensions,form drops etc,etc...not to mention freak goals and freak incidents. I am very Happy with Dean and glad the decision was made.....but I will never look down my nose at Bruce, he had a go and failed to get us up.....miserably failed no not for me....I enjoyed the 24 wins, but not so much the style of football. I think we have a manager now, where I would concede the future looks brighter and the football more entertaining and convincing....and I just want to be grateful for that. But taint the last guy, no not for me...I would imagine Dean himself would be pleased with some of the players he left, even though Dean has improved them.....I would prefer to be gracious, with him, it comes around you know. Great post as always TRO - but for me the song remains the same. 1 goal might as well have been 20 - Bruce was tasked with gaining promotion and he failed - which was pretty miserable imo. My overview of his tenure is this could and should have done better - and his cheap shots at his own public will linger for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dave J said: Great post as always TRO - but for me the song remains the same. 1 goal might as well have been 20 - Bruce was tasked with gaining promotion and he failed - which was pretty miserable imo. My overview of his tenure is this could and should have done better - and his cheap shots at his own public will linger for some time. Thanks Dave, you are very generous. some of his own public?.....i am convinced he wasn't aiming those comments at me, so I am oblivious to it. but i tell you what Dave.....There are things said by some Villa Fans over the years, that I would not associate myself with and yet we are all Villa fans.....We might be, but we all have different outlooks. Its easy for winning and losing to change a fans outlook. Edited April 23, 2019 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Only two things will survive the apocalypse. Cockroaches, and the Steve Bruce thread. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 2 hours ago, TRO said: Thanks Dave, you are very generous. some of his own public?.....i am convinced he wasn't aiming those comments at me, so I am oblivious to it. but i tell you what Dave.....There are things said by some Villa Fans over the years, that I would not associate myself with and yet we are all Villa fans.....We might be, but we all have different outlooks. Its easy for winning and losing to change a fans outlook. Again I agree to a point - but the moment you call out your own fans, the game is over and will only go one way unless you are constantly winning football matches - the guy is too much in love with himself and his own recommendations imo TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, Dave J said: Again I agree to a point - but the moment you call out your own fans, the game is over and will only go one way unless you are constantly winning football matches - the guy is too much in love with himself and his own recommendations imo TRO thanks for the sensible debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 12 hours ago, TRO said: Some comments from some fans, was not representative of the overall fan base, so he had a go back. What comments? The ones he invented because he was panicking the team wasn't winning? He attacked the fans before anything negative anything happened at Villa Park. Aside from his football obviously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: What comments? The ones he invented because he was panicking the team wasn't winning? He attacked the fans before anything negative anything happened at Villa Park. Aside from his football obviously. It was because he used manage that lot down the road only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Tomaszk said: What comments? The ones he invented because he was panicking the team wasn't winning? He attacked the fans before anything negative anything happened at Villa Park. Aside from his football obviously. Funny how he only ever attacked fans when he was on a losing streak. Funny how Smith when on a losing streak didn't attack fans who were on his back. Funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 12 hours ago, Dick said: Funny how he only ever attacked fans when he was on a losing streak. Funny how Smith when on a losing streak didn't attack fans who were on his back. Funny. Hilarious. Hilarious that you think the two situations were the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 13 hours ago, Dick said: Funny how he only ever attacked fans when he was on a losing streak. Funny how Smith when on a losing streak didn't attack fans who were on his back. Funny. Well, SB had been in the job for some time, Dean had only just got his feet under the desk, so the fans were obviously going to give him time...thank god. The Football Steve presided over also created antagonism and that plus losing games was enough for the fans to turn. There will always be " Elements " or groups in a fan base that for whatever reason are anti something or someone. I think we should just let the bloke get on with his new job, whether anyone is for or against him, he is not our business anymore.......and spend all our time and energy with Dean Smith, he is our future now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villa4europe Posted April 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 24, 2019 47 minutes ago, TRO said: The Football Steve presided over also created antagonism and that plus losing games was enough for the fans to turn. on about page 2 or 3 of this thread I said it and still stand by it, for me it wasn't the football which we all kind of knew would be a be shit, it wasn't the losing games, it was the fact that if he ever had got us promoted then would simply have gone back to being shit in the PL waiting for him to be sacked as we lingered in 17th place, i think a lot of the fans had the penny drop along the way, the realization that we might scrape a promotion under him but he has a ceiling and his squad building and style has limitations, as a result even some of the wins weren't good enough, we climbed the table but how much were we actually progressing as a club? the answers not a lot there was never at any point a long term future with steve bruce 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 27 minutes ago, villa4europe said: on about page 2 or 3 of this thread I said it and still stand by it, for me it wasn't the football which we all kind of knew would be a be shit, it wasn't the losing games, it was the fact that if he ever had got us promoted then would simply have gone back to being shit in the PL waiting for him to be sacked as we lingered in 17th place, i think a lot of the fans had the penny drop along the way, the realization that we might scrape a promotion under him but he has a ceiling and his squad building and style has limitations, as a result even some of the wins weren't good enough, we climbed the table but how much were we actually progressing as a club? the answers not a lot there was never at any point a long term future with steve bruce I think in view of what has been achieved with Dean, you are right. I guess rightly or wrongly, some fans like me was expecting things to change and that what we are seeing now, was to come.....sadly it didn't. I felt at the start of SB's reign a miserly approach was right, due to the situation of conceding goals so easily....but I expected it to change and it didn't. Hey Ho.....Alls well, that ends well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted April 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 24, 2019 3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Hilarious. Hilarious that you think the two situations were the same. For a more dire situation see: Alex McLeish. On a terrible run, hated by the fans, fans bringing out the bedsheets with his name scribbled on them and he was nothing but respectful towards them. Bruce is in such exalted company as DOL and MON when it comes to having a go at fans. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: For a more dire situation see: Alex McLeish. On a terrible run, hated by the fans, fans bringing out the bedsheets with his name scribbled on them and he was nothing but respectful towards them. Bruce is in such exalted company as DOL and MON when it comes to having a go at fans. Absolutely 100% agree - Mcleish is a football man through and through - should never have taken our job and taint himself along the way - but hey we're Villa and when we come knocking not many say no - I agree he conducted himself in an admirable manner - Bruce take a leaf out of his book. I sincerely hope Mcleish does get another shot somewhere in England. This said I cannot lie - I rejoiced the day he left - but not as much as the day Bruce left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: For a more dire situation see: Alex McLeish. On a terrible run, hated by the fans, fans bringing out the bedsheets with his name scribbled on them and he was nothing but respectful towards them. Bruce is in such exalted company as DOL and MON when it comes to having a go at fans. Personally I have no issue with managers sticking up for themselves. That said, Bruce had a hell of a lot more goodwill from the fans than most other managers in my time watching the club. More concerning for me was when he talked about having a plan for Foriestieri when he was suspended, that just highlighted how poorly prepared we were. I mean I never thought he was a tactical or coaching genius but that took the piss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Personally I have no issue with managers sticking up for themselves. That said, Bruce had a hell of a lot more goodwill from the fans than most other managers in my time watching the club. More concerning for me was when he talked about having a plan for Foriestieri when he was suspended, that just highlighted how poorly prepared we were. I mean I never thought he was a tactical or coaching genius but that took the piss. He got more leeway than any manager since MON left. He only started to get it when it became glaringly obvious that it just wasn't going to work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave J said: Absolutely 100% agree - Mcleish is a football man through and through - should never have taken our job and taint himself along the way - but hey we're Villa and when we come knocking not many say no - I agree he conducted himself in an admirable manner - Bruce take a leaf out of his book. I sincerely hope Mcleish does get another shot somewhere in England. This said I cannot lie - I rejoiced the day he left - but not as much as the day Bruce left. McLeish got more abuse than Bruce ever did. So did Lambert. Neither ever had a go at the fans when they had much more reason. So happy that conceited spud has gone. Great everyone can now enjoy our football and results. Look at the crowds! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: McLeish got more abuse than Bruce ever did. So did Lambert. Neither ever had a go at the fans when they had much more reason. So happy that conceited spud has gone. Great everyone can now enjoy our football and results. Look at the crowds! Did Lambert get abuse though. Lot of groaning but he got an incredible amount of good will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: Did Lambert get abuse though. Lot of groaning but he got an incredible amount of good will He started to at the end, the team certainly did with him at the helm. To reiterate, much more than Bruce ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: He started to at the end, the team certainly did with him at the helm. To reiterate, much more than Bruce ever did. Maybe. Bruce though had this in Championship which makes it worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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