Steve Bruce

[sne]

Just going to add that for me points per game average is more important than win%.

Although they obviously are connected 

Hence why for me Bruce is doing a better job so far at Wednesday than he did here, even thou his win % is almost the same (46 vs 45%)

 

[Stevo985]

31 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

that's the reality for both smith and bruce, both utterly dependent on jack

I think, given the evidence we've got, Smith has been far more dependent on Jack.

I think his biggest task next season, whatever league we're in, is to lessen our dependence on Jack.

We're always going to be dependent on him to be our best, but we need to make our performances without him less terrible  

[Keyblade]

I honestly think if we had one of Carroll or Lansbury fit, a few of those draws would have probably been wins, and we would be much more comfortable right now.

[osmark86]

1 hour ago, lapal_fan said:

Again, is it way more entertaining?  Hanging on against Blackburn at home doesn't really strike me as entertaining.. I wasn't exactly loving the Wednesday game until the 92nd minute either!  

I think it's better, but it's not loads better. 

That said, we've already scored more goals than last season, we've let more in of course, but I think we look really nicely balanced at the minute, and we seem to be utilizing the squad really well.  

No not all the time. I did enjoy last season. However I still remember seeing the stark difference in pressing and urgency on the ball in Dean's first game and it was what we had been missing for so long. We still have games where we look fairly average just like under Bruce, but I think I like what we're striving for much more under Dean. So with that in mind, yeah I find it more entertaining and when we're on top of our game way more so.

[osmark86]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I think, given the evidence we've got, Smith has been far more dependent on Jack.

I think his biggest task next season, whatever league we're in, is to lessen our dependence on Jack.

We're always going to be dependent on him to be our best, but we need to make our performances without him less terrible  

This is true. Bruce did better without him tbf. I think Dean is aware of this though.

[Stevo985]

10 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

This is true. Bruce did better without him tbf. I think Dean is aware of this though.

To be fair it could be a compliment to Smith's style in a way.

Being more reliant on a player like Jack might suggest that we play the type of football now that relies on a creative player like him.

We just maybe need to have a plan B in the form of someone else who can do a similar job (but probably not as good unless we make an incredible signing) or, more likely, a second style of play or plan that we can revert to in Jack's absence.

[Keyblade]

8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

To be fair it could be a compliment to Smith's style in a way.

Being more reliant on a player like Jack might suggest that we play the type of football now that relies on a creative player like him.

We just maybe need to have a plan B in the form of someone else who can do a similar job (but probably not as good unless we make an incredible signing) or, more likely, a second style of play or plan that we can revert to in Jack's absence.

Nothing a summer transfer window can't solve.

We forget that Dean is largely working with a team he hasn't built and so he has to simply work with what he's got. Unfortunately what he's got is just 1 other creative player of Jack's ilk, but he's perennially injured. He tried to remedy it in January but it didn't work out. His reliance on Jack is more of an indictment of the squad (kind of, it could just be that Bruce's style didn't favour a creative midfielder and so apart from Jack he didn't need more...which is fine), than of Smith.

[Tomaszk]

3 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

Again, is it way more entertaining?  Hanging on against Blackburn at home doesn't really strike me as entertaining..

Yes, way way more entertaining.

Did you enjoy the first half v Blackburn? That 45 mins was better to watch than many wins under Bruce.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Tomaszk

[Davkaus]

I think Wolves might have been the only win I watched under Bruce after which I left the ground feeling genuinely pleased I'd  gone to watch. There were certainly no more than a handful. Most of the time we seemed to win ugly, or I'd wonder how we'd managed to get the points at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still go mental when we scored, but once that initial euphoria wore off, it was always still a bit depressing to watch even when we were winning, for me. I can't imagine how bad it must be watching Pulis' teams every week.

[Dave J]

6 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

I'm a bit uncomfortable talking about style of football.. Is it really that much better under Smith?  We've hardly blown anyone out of the water, apart from Middlesborough, who have been on an awful run. 

There's a lot of grey in the Bruce term.  I enjoyed last season because we won a load of games and had some good moments.  Then we lost the playoff final and Xia ran out of money, when we had a squad rebuild going on because of all the loans and Terry retiring.. It was short-termism, which is essentially a gamble which failed.  Then we went half way through the summer with administration on the door-step when we were "saved", then we went an did what business we could, some of which was good, the defence side of which was **** awful.  

Won our first couple of games this season, then it all went pear shaped and he lost interest I think.

There's no doubt that he loved managing a team like Villa, he said multiple times that it was his best job, but the lop-sided squad he left wasn't good.  It's probably why he's bitter about it, which he shouldn't be - he had enough time and I think we cut him off at just the right time.  It's a shame it didn't all work out, but the black and white nature of peoples posts irk me.  We were 90 minutes away, and one poorly positioned Hutton (Fulham's playoff goal) away from going up.. that's pretty close in my opinion.  

As ever with football, it's decided on fine margins, and I'm sure in 3 years we'll be having the same conversations about Smith! 

Such is life. 

Yes we were 90 minutes away and no one can take this fact away from you or Bruce for that matter - but for me, given what was available to him - it represents nothing more than a miserable failure - I guess this is what divides opinion of the man.

I don't feel many of us expected much less than automatic last season and therefore anything less has to be considered as not meeting objectives and therefore failure? Imo 

[Xela]

Doing a very decent job at the Owls IMO

[Chindie]

He's a good manager in the Championship. Him doing a decent job at Wednesday isn't a shock.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

He's a good manager in the Championship

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Stevo985

[rodders0223]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

He's a good manager in the Championship.

Reported.

 

1 hour ago, Xela said:

Doing a very decent job at the Owls IMO

Reported as well.

[TRO]

On 10/04/2019 at 19:33, Dave J said:

Yes we were 90 minutes away and no one can take this fact away from you or Bruce for that matter - but for me, given what was available to him - it represents nothing more than a miserable failure - I guess this is what divides opinion of the man.

I don't feel many of us expected much less than automatic last season and therefore anything less has to be considered as not meeting objectives and therefore failure? Imo 

Dave I feel I have to answer, but don't really want to because I am so enjoying Dean Smiths Tenure.

I get that you don't like/rate him...but I struggle with your reasoning.

We were 90 odd minutes away, One goal resigned us to a life outside the Premier League as disappointing as that was....24 wins in the season and 72 goals scored and 42 against 83 points.....I concede the football now is far more convincing and what has been achieved by Dean is remarkable under the circumstances.

The reasoning I struggle with is " Miserable Failure"....Do you mean it was miserable for you, because you was expecting to go up?.....or do you mean the failure was of a miserable nature?

Personally, I would describe a season like the one where we managed 3 wins under Lambert as a "miserable failure" not missing out by 2 goals in a final.....I would call that just Failure, without the adjective.

PS In all my days watching Villa since 1959......I have never expected promotion, always hoped for it, such is the topsy turvy world of football where so many factors can trip you up....I don't expect it now and we are on the back of the greatest run in our History, because football has twists and turns, injuries,suspensions,form drops etc,etc...not to mention freak goals and freak incidents.

I am very Happy with Dean and glad the decision was made.....but I will never look down my nose at Bruce, he had a go and failed to get us up.....miserably failed no not for me....I enjoyed the 24 wins, but not so much the style of football.

I think we have a manager now, where I would concede the future looks brighter and the football more entertaining and convincing....and I just want to be grateful for that.

But taint the last guy, no not for me...I would imagine Dean himself would be pleased with some of the players he left, even though Dean has improved them.....I would prefer to be gracious, with him, it comes around you know.

Edited April 22, 2019 by TRO

[rodders0223]

[TRO]

On 10/04/2019 at 18:57, Davkaus said:

I think Wolves might have been the only win I watched under Bruce after which I left the ground feeling genuinely pleased I'd  gone to watch. There were certainly no more than a handful. Most of the time we seemed to win ugly, or I'd wonder how we'd managed to get the points at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still go mental when we scored, but once that initial euphoria wore off, it was always still a bit depressing to watch even when we were winning, for me. I can't imagine how bad it must be watching Pulis' teams every week.

So you didn't see the Bristol City Game?

Not saying you are wrong, just maybe forgetting a few decent games....it is better now of course. I just wonder if we are being a bit mean, seen as the football now is so much better.

Personally.....I didn't like the football under Martin O'Neill either, some great incidents and goals and 6-6-6 was a tremendous return.....but compared with Ron Saunders era, i was less encouraged.....but hey its all part of our History.

"Don't look back in anger" as the Holte End eloquently roars.

Edited April 23, 2019 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

So you didn't see the Bristol City Game?

[ciggiesnbeer]

Hope he continues to do well for them, as he did for us, for a little while there. Good eye for a player in the transfer market as well, if not always on the field.

 

Should have been fired or resigned sooner mind. When a manager starts getting chippy with the fans then you both know its time for a change.

[TRO]

5 hours ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Hope he continues to do well for them, as he did for us, for a little while there. Good eye for a player in the transfer market as well, if not always on the field.

 

Should have been fired or resigned sooner mind. When a manager starts getting chippy with the fans then you both know its time for a change.

That's true Ciggie....but some comments from some fans, was not representative of the overall fan base, so he had a go back.

If a certain few had a go at Jack Grealish.....I would expect him to stand his ground too.

I would say to those folk......."People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"....or "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

I just hope under any circumstances, that does not happen with Dean Smith.

Just remember a fan base is made up of a kaleidoscope of personalities, not always thinking the same.

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by TRO