TRO Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, terrytini said: Ha ! I aired this view last season before Norwich at Home - after 2 dismal away performances - and was universally pilloried. How times have changed. Its a hypothetical isn’t it ? The point is if defeat GUARANTEED him gone, it’d be worth it ( if one takes the view we are better without him). Of course in the real world there is no such guarantee, therefore one does not wish for, or celebrate, defeat. Terry, I chose my words carefully. Having him gone is only half the job. The other half is getting someone better. I think the assumption that it is guaranteed is presumptuous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Ah yes, here we go again. People wanting us to lose so Steve Bruce can get sacked. This really is obsession. So great is the obsession with sacking Steve Bruce that people are prepared to see tie team the team they support lose. That represents a serious loss of perspective. Briny .... What is your perspective? Not about Bruce outers, but about Bruce himself at this moment in time? Genuine question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Ah yes, here we go again. People wanting us to lose so Steve Bruce can get sacked. This really is obsession. So great is the obsession with sacking Steve Bruce that people are prepared to see tie team the team they support lose. That represents a serious loss of perspective. I don't want to see him sacked per se. I just want to see believable football with a reasonable amount of fundamental errors gone. I want to see my team produce cohesive football that resembles team play as opposed to 11 individuals trying to make it work. Sadly,I don't think Steve is going to be able to do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Stevo985 said: We've been round this before. You're right, you can't compare them exactly and say Bruce is better than Manager X because his win percentage is 5% higher. But you CAN use win percentage to give a general idea that a manager has done well. You can't argue, for example, that Garde was a better Villa manager than Bruce given garde's win % was 13% and Bruce's is whatever it is, 44%? It's an indicator, but certainly not an exact measure. I don't agree, for example, that you can label Bruce one of our worst managers ever when he has a win percentage of 44% over 100 games. I completely agree that he hasn't been good ENOUGH. 100% But as usual I think VT is exaggerating a Manager's deficiencies because he's out of favour. I think you have it about right. Just to add It would be fairly naive to recruit a new manager with a poor win ratio and expect big things. It could happen but most unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Ah yes, here we go again. People wanting us to lose so Steve Bruce can get sacked. This really is obsession. So great is the obsession with sacking Steve Bruce that people are prepared to see tie team the team they support lose. That represents a serious loss of perspective. I'm on the fence about Bruce but I completely disagree with this perspective. I want Aston Villa to win the next game, but it's far, far more important in the medium term for Aston Villa to get promoted to the Premier League. If people don't think the manager can take us there, then it's in their our interests to get the manager out of the club as quickly as possible, which means losing a few games in the short term. It's not like people are calling for the interruption of a long winning streak for these losses. We're losing regularly enough anyway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killeen30 Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 On 26/09/2018 at 12:33, bannedfromHandV said: No, it won't. He won't even make the top 5 of worst Managers in the past decade. Agreed. Time for a change though, no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 3 hours ago, TRO said: but Bruce got an almost instant reaction, to RDM's team.....RDM had no where near enough time, but who could run with constant non -wins......Bruce did have poor runs in his career with us, but he bought himself some time. I don't think its a good time to argue in favour of Steve Bruce, because I think we all favour a change.....but just saying. Did he though? or was it just an easier set of fixtures coming up that RDM would have improved results with had he been given the chance? oh well, we'll never know but I felt it was necessary to bring some balance to the argument from RDMs point of view. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 3 hours ago, TRO said: I don't think you get my point, sorry.....Even if you don't agree. Yes, there were better teams in the Prem than us and yes we were in the lower part of the league. That is the point of win ratios......to get in the top half and improve your win ratio.....that is the very challenge. You can't expect to be in the lower half and have an impressive win ratio.....but its the managers job to deal with that.....as a manager you can't say my win ratio is unfair, because i have poor players....its your job to fix it, that why you are being rated. If you are in a higher league it follows that in theory you should be able to attract the better quality players to compete in that league....that is what creates the balance. Given time to make the transition and get his better players in....Nuno's win ratio will be fairly compared with what he achieved last season. I accept that when you get to the very pinnacle, its harder to get the best players, the air gets thinner so to speak......but as a benchmark through 4/5 divisions I think its a fair measurement. It's historical data but you need the context of the situation to make it relevant. Comparing Bruce's win ratio to teams that got automatic promotion is relevant as Bruce was (and still is) managing a squad who, on paper, should be challenging for those places. 42% vs 60%+is poor in context. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlico_Villa Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 4 hours ago, NeilS said: I have a feeling Friday's match could go in a similar vein to the Sheffield United game. Bristol City will sense we are really wobbly and go after us early on, and will be extra fired up to revenge the hammering they took at Villa Park. If it goes as I fear it will (I never want Villa to lose), then I think Bruce will be gone early next week. Bruce will set up ultra defensively and play for the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 It might be just me but everytime an article out video appears about Bruce the same words keto popping up in my head '**** off Bruce, just **** off'. I really wish the board would put the 3 legged donkey down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted September 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted September 27, 2018 His presser for Bristol was interesting, basically saying yep great Grealish signed but then chucked him under the bus pretty much and sounded very confused about what role Grealish was actually playing, kind of inside lfet, kind of free role. Looked like he was stuck on teh touchline mostly to me but what do I know. Questions were really weak, clearly an approved set of questions. On the wanting us to lose thing, I just want us to (as a club) find some direction, put a **** marker down as to what we are from top to the under 11s and give it a few years with talented people working together trying to acheive a goal. We are light years away from that now and I can't see Bruce being part of that. One result over 90 minutes doesn't change that really, win or lose we're still a rudderless basket case as it stands. Even if we go out and play a blinder and stuff them 6 nothing the fundamental problems remain. Even the Bruce out types (I'm one) getting their wish is only one part of the larger puzzle to get right. I'd like a DOF appointment, a good one first, actually before Bruce's replacement is signed. I dunno, it's easy to get abusive and say he's a clearing in the woods etc. but he came close last year despite playing toilet for 80% of the season. He deserves credit for getting close, he might get there or thereabouts this season but even then, without proper change at the club a talented replacement might struggle too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Junxs said: Did he though? or was it just an easier set of fixtures coming up that RDM would have improved results with had he been given the chance? oh well, we'll never know but I felt it was necessary to bring some balance to the argument from RDMs point of view. well balanced......like a boulder stuck between the spokes of a horse & cart would you have given him more time? Edited September 27, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, Pimlico_Villa said: Bruce will set up ultra defensively and play for the point. Yes I think he will too, a lot will depend on if we concede early. If we do, which is a possibility as we give up opportunities too easily, then I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few goals go in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 6 hours ago, JamesBCFC said: Genuine question(s). 1. Are any if you at the point where you'd want Villa to lose games to see Bruce go? In 2016-17 there was a member of our forum who started a "I hope we lose" thread ahead of our FA Cup game against Fleetwood. On the basis that defeat would have brought Lee Johnson closer to the sack (this was in our long bad run that season). Despite quite a few people at that time being "LJ out" he was, almost entirely, slated for his comment. 2. Would you take 3 defeats in your next 3 games- essentially ruling out promotion for this season- if it meant Bruce left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, TRO said: well balanced......like a boulder stuck between the spokes of a horse & cart would you have given him more time? At the time I wasn't sure he was given enough time and thought the sacking was a bit harsh and rushed, I didn't know at the time the fixtures we had played were all against teams that ended the season very high in the league. The 2 defeats against Bristol and Preston were quite close to each other and it did look like he was starting to struggle. Looking back now I think fans wanted too much too soon, and the fixtures weren't kind to RdM. Didn't help with Dr Tony talking about being as big as Barcelona in 5 years, think the fans bought into that so it gave RdM more pressure and less time to turn it around. This is why I get annoyed when people say RdM would have taken us down or Bruce steadied the ship. What annoys me though is that Bruce went on far worse runs quite consistently but was given the boards backing no matter what. The time I started turning against Bruce was when the same logic wasnt applied to him as was to RDM. When Wyness came on WM and stated that Bruce would remain in the job even if we got relegated made my blood boil. At that point I was so confused why RdM was given no leeway but Bruce who didnt look much better was being backed even if he took the club down. I've been wanting Bruce out since around that time, think March or April of that season so its been a long hard struggle mentally for me. I think RdM would have comfortably got us mid table just like Bruce did in that season. Ultimately he didnt do enough in his limited time, but I'm far from convinced that Bruce has gone on to do better than RdM would have had he been given a proper chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I still think Bruce wants the sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I still think Bruce wants the sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Do you still think Bruce wants the sack? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Just now, dounavilla said: Do you still think Bruce wants the sack? I still think Bruce wants the sack. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I still think Bruce wants the sack. So true you can say it thrice. He wants to Sam life now, Coming in short-term for big bonuses. He'll do better with that than being left to build something. He's done forever with anyone as big as Villa now. Edited September 27, 2018 by Tomaszk 3! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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