Steve Bruce

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Whose is better?

Accusing me of 'peddling a myth' for stating our squad is the strongest in the division is a reach, at best.

Middlesbrough, Stoke and Leeds for me.  Then we're a close run thing with Derby and West Brom behind that.

We should be a top 6 side this season.

Edited September 19, 2018 by bobzy

[StefanAVFC]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Middlesbrough, Stoke and Leeds for me.  Then we're a close run thing with Derby and West Brom behind that.

We should be a top 6 side this season.

So even in your opinion, there's only 3 squads better than ours. (I would say that we're on a par with Boro/Stoke at worst and Leeds is worse with a significantly better manager)

Yet I was "peddling a myth" to state that ours is the best squad.

And interestingly, you totally discounted the rest of my post around context, focusing purely on this one point.

Opinions on the rest of it?

[bobzy]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

So even in your opinion, there's only 3 squads better than ours. (I would say that we're on a par with Boro/Stoke at worst and Leeds is worse with a significantly better manager)

Yet I was "peddling a myth" to state that ours is the best squad.

And interestingly, you totally discounted the rest of my post around context, focusing purely on this one point.

Opinions on the rest of it?

That's right, you're peddling a myth to say it's the best squad in the division when, at best, it's 4th.  There's a difference between 4th best and best - we found that out last season.

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, bobzy said:

That's right, you're peddling a myth to say it's the best squad in the division when, at best, it's 4th.  There's a difference between 4th best and best - we found that out last season.

So I'm peddling a myth based on my opinion? In my opinion, we're the 3rd strongest at worst.

I'm sorry but your choice of words here is really poor. 

I'll ask again:

you totally discounted the rest of my post around context, focusing purely on this one point.

Opinions on the rest of it?

[bobzy]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

So I'm peddling a myth based on my opinion? In my opinion, we're the 3rd strongest at worst.

I'm sorry but your choice of words here is really poor. 

I'll ask again:

you totally discounted the rest of my post around context, focusing purely on this one point.

Opinions on the rest of it?

I didn't comment on the rest of your post, why are you bringing it up?

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

  There's a difference between 4th best and best - we found that out last season.

Eh?

The league table isn't determined by the best or worst squads. Cardiff's squad was nowhere the 2nd best, they finished there by playing in a certain way. A style of play which was effective. 

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, bobzy said:

I didn't comment on the rest of your post, why are you bringing it up?

Because I'm asking your opinion on it? That's generally how a forum works.

[villa4europe]

the argument then comes in, why are we the 4th best squad in the championship? because of the imbalanced defence? and who's fault is that?

[StefanAVFC]

27 minutes ago, bobzy said:

We should be a top 6 side this season.

This sentence is a perfect example of how we've lowered our expectations under Bruce, mostly due to him too. We absolutely should not be a top 6 side this season.

We should be a top 2 side, especially after the abject failure last year. The squad is comfortably good enough (we have the comfortably best player in the Championship  ) but the management is not.

I can't think of a team that went up playing like we are, in recent history anyway. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by StefanAVFC

[thabucks]

Dead man waking getting his excuses out there for his media chums to run with. He knows his time is up as there is no way back for him and the groundswell of opinion is turning against him with each abject display... he is trying to control the narrative  to preserve his reputation so he will find another club to **** up I mean manage... 

im now relaxed as I can’t see him making it to the end of the next international break and we haven’t been left behind as of yet.... given the new manager a shot of promotion. I agree due to the summers turmoil winning the league was unrealistic I just thought naively 3 seasons into Bruce tenure he would have a clue what he was doing ... but no he won’t learn or change....

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, villa4europe said:

the argument then comes in, why are we the 4th best squad in the championship? because of the imbalanced defence? and who's fault is that?

This too. 

We have 1 LB who Bruce pretty much considers not good enough and 2 CBs. That's piss-poor and a historic criticism of Bruce looking at this Sunderland days.

Honestly, our attacking talent is that absurd and the best to such an extent, that even with our unbalanced defence and shaky keeper, we're still the best in the league in terms of personnel. 

[fifamad]

Bruce in now? See his tactical mastermind against Rotherham. It’s all good now, we are going to finish top 2. 

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

This sentence is a perfect example of how we've lowered our expectations under Bruce, mostly due to him too. We absolutely should not be a top 6 side this season.

We should be a top 2 side, especially after the abject failure last year. The squad is comfortably good enough (we have the comfortably best player in the Championship  ) but the management is not.

I can't think of a team that went up playing like we are, in recent history anyway. 

I haven't lowered my expectations (yawn, this phrase is back) at all to be honest - I expected Wolves and Fulham to get promoted automatically last season and I expected Stoke to get automatic promotion this season, with the other side too close to call but probably Middlesbrough.  As I've said many, many, many times in this thread and in others, I'd be happy with another playoff final this season.  That isn't to say we can't get automatic promotion, but that I don't "expect" it.  To quote another word that is used too often, I wouldn't see it as a season of "failure" to finish, say, 4th again.

The team is good enough but only because it has so much firepower going forwards.  The defence looks pretty poor (because we don't have the best squad in the division ) and we will leak chances in every single game, so we're going to need to Keegan a fair amount of teams this season to achieve automatic promotion.  I don't think this style suits Bruce and I'm amazed he's (or whoever sorts the transfers now) left the team so short in defence.

[bobzy]

12 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

the argument then comes in, why are we the 4th best squad in the championship? because of the imbalanced defence? and who's fault is that?

I think @Stevo985 said it best earlier in this thread; if you give any sort of credit or leeway that is deemed to be "in favour" of Bruce, it's treated as if you're jumping to his defence or something.  It's utterly bizarre.

To answer your question, though, I honestly don't know.  When El Ghazi, Moreira and Nyland were signed up, people were saying that these "can't be Bruce signings" so, if someone above him is signing players, then presumably the lack of defence would be down to them?

[Vive_La_Villa]

12 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

This too. 

We have 1 LB who Bruce pretty much considers not good enough and 2 CBs. That's piss-poor and a historic criticism of Bruce looking at this Sunderland days.

Honestly, our attacking talent is that absurd and the best to such an extent, that even with our unbalanced defence and shaky keeper, we're still the best in the league in terms of personnel. 

It really isn’t and we really aren’t. Just look at Stoke, Albion and even Leeds. We have got some very good players. But I do think our fans think we are better than we are at times.

[andym]

I think there are definitely other teams with comparable players and squads, for example WBA have Gayle and Rodriguez up front, which is an excellent pairing for this division. They have some good wingers as well like Phillips and Barnes. Leeds have good attackers, Boro are pretty strong.

However, that is when the manager is supposed to make a difference, and surely Bruce being 'Mr 4 promotions from this league', he should be able to make a significant one. I imagine he's paid like someone who can.

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

9 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I'd be happy with another playoff final this season.

So would I, provided we won it. A loss would be a total failure, especially after last season.

7 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I think @Stevo985 said it best earlier in this thread; if you give any sort of credit or leeway that is deemed to be "in favour" of Bruce, it's treated as if you're jumping to his defence or something.  It's utterly bizarre.

To answer your question, though, I honestly don't know.  When El Ghazi, Moreira and Nyland were signed up, people were saying that these "can't be Bruce signings" so, if someone above him is signing players, then presumably the lack of defence would be down to them?

No one is accusing you of anything. It's a discussion.

Us having 1 LB isn't all Bruce's fault. He identified Bryan and circumstances out of his control stopped it happening. However, the overall start to the season is his fault. And the worst thing is, as I stated, it could have been way, way worse.

Last minute goals got us nearly half of our points so far. It's unsustainable.

That's my biggest problem here. It isn't sustainable to play games like this, gain points like this. And in 2 years in charge it's the same situation.

And then, when any criticism (rightful too) is aimed at him, he calls the fans thick.

it all builds up.

[TheStagMan]

32 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

So would I, provided we won it. A loss would be a total failure, especially after last season.

No one is accusing you of anything. It's a discussion.

Us having 1 LB isn't all Bruce's fault. He identified Bryan and circumstances out of his control stopped it happening. However, the overall start to the season is his fault. And the worst thing is, as I stated, it could have been way, way worse.

Last minute goals got us nearly half of our points so far. It's unsustainable.

That's my biggest problem here. It isn't sustainable to play games like this, gain points like this. And in 2 years in charge it's the same situation.

And then, when any criticism (rightful too) is aimed at him, he calls the fans thick.

it all builds up.

Stop bringing up sensible concepts like sustainability. You know we are only allowed to judge on a game by game basis, and then only on the result, and regardless of the opposition. 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, andym said:

We've played Hull, Wigan, Ipswich, Brentford, Reading, Sheffield Utd, Blackburn and Rotherham.

That's all 3 newly promoted teams, and in Hull, Ipswich and Reading 3 teams who are probably going to be in and around the relegation mix. The only sides out of those you would consider decent are Brentford, where we needed a last minute equaliser at home, and Sheffield Utd, where we were humiliated away.

Forgive me for still having reservations, especially as we have 2 years worth of evidence under Bruce showing what happens when you keep putting in the type of average performances we do (hint: as likely to go on a poor run of results as a good one, and ultimately failure to get promotion).

in fairness the newly promoted teams have started quite well. Rotherham or Blackburn would have leaped over us if they had beaten us. only above Wigan on goals scored

Start of season they are usually more difficult to play compared to when the promotion buzz is drained around October/November

[Tomaszk]

6 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I wanted him replaced when we lost the play off final.

I was backing the option of keeping him in the summer, but that was entirely because of the financial abyss we were staring into. My reasoning was that if we were going to have a squad decimated by a firesale then no manager would want to come here so keeping Bruce in that situation might have been a good option.
If the new owners had taken over in May then I would have been 100% backing Bruce to be sacked.

I've consistently said all summer that if a good replacement is available then he should go.

People on here often confuse defending Bruce on anything with wanting him to stay, such is the binary nature of VillaTalk. People can't bear to hear anything positive about the manager in case it somehow weakens their Bruce Out stance.

I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't think Bruce is a terrible manager, does think he does some things right; but doesn't think he's done well enough here and doesn't want him as our manager any more.

So a few months you've wanted him out then. Four-ish with a bit of a dip in the middle when you thought getting him to stay might be sensible.

You have said you enjoyed the football last season. Are you enjoying this season? Do you think the football is good again? Hope so.

Curious because it's identical as last year for me, total crap where we pick up results because our personnel is obscenely strong for the division.

I wonder if your feelings towards him might differ if you watched football you hated for 18 months? That's where a lot of frustration comes from.

Hopefully you won't have to suffer that because he'll be gone before then. Then again, maybe you wouldn't anyway if you enjoy watching the team he's put together? People see things differently, but if I liked his football last year I don't think I'd want him out. Good chance of promotion and good football most weeks. Sounds great.