Steve Bruce

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

You’ve said “ if you give any sort of credit to Bruce..etc etc”.......yet your Post doesn’t really do that. It says another’s view is “ peddling a myth”.

How good our squad is, is subjective. For someone to say it’s the best in the Division, whether you agree or not, ( as it happens, I agree) is no more “ peddling a myth” than you are by stating a contrary view.

FWIW I’ve posted pro and anti Bruce and have felt attacked for it twice in two years at most....it’s not as bad as you say.

I mean, it's just not the best squad in the league.  It has some brilliant players and is able to compete at the top end, but it's just not the best.  Depending on which argument people want to go on, we have 1 or 2 recognised centre backs in our squad.  That's utter madness.

"Peddling a myth" may be too harsh if people actually believe this squad is fantastic, but there are gaping holes at the home end of the pitch.  Massive, massive holes.

[terrytini]

@TRO I agree with that Post except in regards of the Owners views on Bruce.

Its my opinion that they have no intention whatsoever of keeping him, and he’s only still here because they haven’t been able to get their man.

As soon as they can, next week, next month, next year, he will be gone.

No way in the world are those 2 guys going forward with Bruce as their man. Never in a million years.

[terrytini]

Just now, bobzy said:

I mean, it's just not the best squad in the league.  It has some brilliant players and is able to compete at the top end, but it's just not the best.  Depending on which argument people want to go on, we have 1 or 2 recognised centre backs in our squad.  That's utter madness.

"Peddling a myth" may be too harsh if people actually believe this squad is fantastic, but there are gaping holes at the home end of the pitch.  Massive, massive holes.

Just your opinion though, as was his...neither is a myth.

In my view, and many others, it is easily the best squad. In your view, and many others, it’s flawed.

No myths, no agenda.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, terrytini said:

You’ve said “ if you give any sort of credit to Bruce..etc etc”.......yet your Post doesn’t really do that. It says another’s view is “ peddling a myth”.

How good our squad is, is subjective. For someone to say it’s the best in the Division, whether you agree or not, ( as it happens, I agree) is no more “ peddling a myth” than you are by stating a contrary view.

FWIW I’ve posted pro and anti Bruce and have felt attacked for it twice in two years at most....it’s not as bad as you say.

Terry, they are in it together.....Manager and players.

I am not sure where the issues lie, bit of both I suspect.....that's why I prefer to talk about the criticism of the football and avoid the blame, when I am only speculating.

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

Just your opinion though, as was his...neither is a myth.

In my view, and many others, it is easily the best squad. In your view, and many others, it’s flawed.

No myths, no agenda.

Exactly. You can’t in good faith accuse people of having an agenda then not long after label somebody’s reasonable (by the measure that plenty of people agree with it) opinion as ‘peddling a myth’. 

[TRO]

17 minutes ago, terrytini said:

@TRO I agree with that Post except in regards of the Owners views on Bruce.

Its my opinion that they have no intention whatsoever of keeping him, and he’s only still here because they haven’t been able to get their man.

As soon as they can, next week, next month, next year, he will be gone.

No way in the world are those 2 guys going forward with Bruce as their man. Never in a million years.

You could be right, I was just speculating and giving my view on how management can work in general.

I was more commenting on frustration v business decisions.

If we get a better manager in, I am all for it.

but if by miracle, we won every game 'til the end of the season and gained promotion....it would take brave owners Terry, to cut him loose.

Edited September 19, 2018 by TRO

[terrytini]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

Terry, they are in it together.....Manager and players.

I am not sure where the issues lie, bit of both I suspect.....that's why I prefer to talk about the criticism of the football and avoid the blame, when I am only speculating.

I know that’s your view mate........but it’s not and has never been mine. 

How we play has changed microscopically ( and inconsistently) in 2 years, regardless of the players. The only time anything improves is when we add Premier League quality loans ( this year and last).

Ive watched practically every game Home and Away under Bruce, and in practically every case the opposition has played the better football. In practically every case I’ve seen no lack of commitment from our players.

For 6 months, or even a year, it was possible to have  room to question that it wasn’t the approach at fault - I don’t see how anyone still thinks there’s a debate.

Bruces history, his own words, his selections, his comments, and his performances over 2 years here, make it crystal clear that what fan after fan after fan says at games - no pattern, no coaching, too timid, too cautious, no tactics - IS the case ( in my view of course).

Now, whether it’s effective, whether someone else is available who can do better, that’s up for debate, but I’m with those who looked at Bruce managing the quality on the pitch - and on the bench - last night and found it similar to giving the Porsche to my Nan.

Edited September 19, 2018 by terrytini

[bannedfromHandV]

7 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Exactly. You can’t in good faith accuse people of having an agenda then not long after label somebody’s reasonable (by the measure that plenty of people agree with it) opinion as ‘peddling a myth’. 

By that logic Trump and Brexit are two great things then? Given that they were the populist votes. 

Just saying like, not sure if I'm allowed to debate on this subject anymore mind. 

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

By that logic Trump and Brexit are two great things then? Given that they were the populist votes. 

Just saying like, not sure if I'm allowed to debate on this subject anymore mind. 

... what? 

I have literally no idea how you got that from my post. 

Im stating that labelling my opinion as a myth is unfair and that my point is reasonable, nothing about the absolute correctness of it 

give it another read and you’ll realise you got this one wrong. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by StefanAVFC

[terrytini]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

By that logic Trump and Brexit are two great things then? Given that they were the populist votes. 

Just saying like, not sure if I'm allowed to debate on this subject anymore mind. 

No he’s not saying that. He’s saying it’s valid to have a view of the quality of something without it being an agenda, and that if that view is shared by a sizeable population it increases the argument for it being a valid view, as opposed to, for example, a Post designed to get a reaction.

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

No he’s not saying that. He’s saying it’s valid to have a view of the quality of something without it being an agenda, and that if that view is shared by a sizeable population it increases the argument for it being a valid view, as opposed to, for example, a Post designed to get a reaction.

Exactly. 

No comment on whose opinion is objectively correct. Just that that viewpoint was unfairly described as a myth. 

[bobzy]

18 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Just your opinion though, as was his...neither is a myth.

In my view, and many others, it is easily the best squad. In your view, and many others, it’s flawed.

No myths, no agenda.

I'm staggered that anyone thinks a squad with 1 recognised centre back (or maybe 2) is "easily the best" in the league.  I get there's no agenda, but honestly?  Easily the best squad with literally zero defensive depth?

[StefanAVFC]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I'm staggered that anyone thinks a squad with 1 recognised centre back (or maybe 2) is "easily the best" in the league.  I get there's no agenda, but honestly?  Easily the best squad with literally zero defensive depth?

tbh 'easily' probably overstates my thoughts and if I said that I'll happily withdraw it.

Even looking at our defence, Chester is one of the best CBs in the league, Elmo/Hutton solid. Nyland not sure on.

But our attacking threat is ridiculous. No other team has the depth we have. 80% of this league would kill just for an Adomah and he's, in theory, 2nd/3rd choice now. Boggling.

Even our closest rivals have a piece here and there, not the full on jigsaw.

[bannedfromHandV]

12 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

... what? 

I have literally no idea how you got that from my post. 

Im stating that labelling my opinion as a myth is unfair and that my point is reasonable, nothing about the absolute correctness of it 

give it another read and you’ll realise you got this one wrong. 

Sorry, read it as you saying that becuase it's a popular opinion it's therefore credible. 

Hence the Brexit / trump references. 

If I've misread your point I apologise. 

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I know that’s your view mate........but it’s not and has never been mine. 

How we play has changed microscopically ( and inconsistently) in 2 years, regardless of the players. The only time anything improves is when we add Premier League quality loans ( this year and last).

Ive watched practically every game Home and Away under Bruce, and in practically every case the opposition has played the better football. In practically every case I’ve seen no lack of commitment from our players.

For 6 months, or even a year, it was possible to have  room to question that it wasn’t the approach at fault - I don’t see how anyone still thinks there’s a debate.

Bruces history, his own words, his selections, his comments, and his performances over 2 years here, make it crystal clear that what fan after fan after fan says at games - no pattern, no coaching, too timid, too cautious, no tactics - IS the case ( in my view of course).

Now, whether it’s effective, whether someone else is available who can do better, that’s up for debate, but I’m with those who looked at Bruce managing the quality on the pitch - and on the bench - last night and found it similar to giving the Porsche to my Nan.

Yeah, I get all that, but there are still players that I am not exactly enamored with.

When i see players fail to make runs off the ball to enable a player in possession an outlet.....I don't call that commitment......I don't call passive running as necessarily commitment, just my call......when I see Bolasie bungling a player out of the way in robust fashion to head a goal, I call that commitment and I think under other circumstances, i can't think of another player in offensive positions in our squad that would have done that.

That's why I think both parties are in it together.....I get, he is the main man and it has to come back to him.

I accept that the amount of water under the bridge, has left him exposed.....it is hard to argue now.

but I have to say, some players he runs with, I would have a different view.....but I guess we all would.

Edited September 19, 2018 by TRO

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

tbh 'easily' probably overstates my thoughts and if I said that I'll happily withdraw it.

Even looking at our defence, Chester is one of the best CBs in the league, Elmo/Hutton solid. Nyland not sure on.

But our attacking threat is ridiculous. No other team has the depth we have. 80% of this league would kill just for an Adomah and he's, in theory, 2nd/3rd choice now. Boggling.

Even our closest rivals have a piece here and there, not the full on jigsaw.

Completely agree going forwards - best attack in the league and Grealish/McGinn behind that is top notch too.

But then we just fall off a cliff.  Chester has been poor this season for me, and is probably a large reason why we're conceding more (usually, he's solid) - outside of him it's just pretty average with no depth at all.  Very much middle of the Championship sort of stuff, with a lower standard waiting in the wings.

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

Sorry, read it as you saying that becuase it's a popular opinion it's therefore credible. 

Hence the Brexit / trump references. 

If I've misread your point I apologise. 

Not entirely.

Sort of the opposite. I felt bobzy labelling my post as a myth was unfair (as a myth would indicate an outlandish or seriously incorrect opinion) so I just used the case that people agreed with me that it was valid to consider. (and not a myth) Not that it was correct.

[Tomaszk]

35 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Leeds were strong last season and faded badly.  Who knows what will happen this time round, but many people were picking them as title contenders at the start of the season.  Barry Douglas was an absolute star for Wolves last season and is a brilliant signing.  They've strengthened their side and look better for it.

Meanwhile, we've signed a whole load of attackers and sacked off our defence entirely.  Yes, they're a team with a better squad than us.  Presumably you disagree?

Bruce has messed up big time with the squad structure yes but if he were to leave we could still go up.

Douglas is great, but my point was that they haven't revamped their team that finished 13th.

I think our squad is just as good as theirs yes. I think it unlikely we'll be seeing our squad play to potential until there's some changes.

[Darth Villa]

I've never known such a "good bloke" divide the opinions of so many "good people" as Steve Bruce is managing to... he is at fault for many things (lack of shape, tactics, entertainment!), as are the lazy players who take their foot off the gas at every opportunity instead of going for the second or third goal...we simply don't have the killer instinct required to be wining the Championship or any other league.

I never disliked him (feel sorry for his recent personal loses too) but his comments last night about the "intelligent fans" just felt childish and uncalled for, he's his own worst enemy at times.  As for the future, I think the owners can see what we do, Bruce is under pressure to deliver this season and if not, he'll be gone.

We do have an excellent (in this league) albeit unbalanced squad and should still be aiming for promotion but my gut feel is that won't be happening with Bruce and even if it did, he wouldn't keep us up. I keep wishing that I'll be wrong but I've seen nothing so far to change my expectation.

[villabromsgrove]

I'm probably going to upset two or three posters on this thread, but what the heck.

I had a conversation a couple of years ago with a member of the 'Flat Earth Society' who sneered at my opinion that the Earth was spherical. He condescendingly dismissed my view and stated that pictures of a round earth were photoshopped, and that NASA secretly guarded the edges of our planetary disc to stop people falling off! 

I see this phenomenon happening on here with a handful of posters who wish to ignore the evidence,  while shaking their heads pityingly at those of us who don't share there opinion .... in my opinion of course.