Steve Bruce

[srsmithusa]

1 minute ago, VillanousOne said:

Unfortunately I believe it will take 3-4 more defeats to even trigger any thoughts of sacking Bruce at the club. We are currently second guessing what the owners want / might do, i fear it will have to get a lot worse before it gets better I just hope the owners realise in time and sack Bruce before this season is a write off.

Why do you think they will be so slow to act?

[TRO]

It just seems like every player that comes in, loses any form they had previously within a few games.

He talks about " Everyone wants to kick our arses " of course they do.....We are a big club with a huge fanbase, allied to to rich owners that give us huge potential.....of course " Everyone wants to kick our arses"

Steve Bruce was brought up at United where SAF was only too well aware that every team wanted to kick their Arses, it should be in his DNA from those days.

This team of ours irrespective of the personnel,or line up...... seem to have no idea how to be ready for that......It seems signing superior ( on paper) players makes little difference to our application.

Its like they ALL turn up at Bodymoor Heath for a rest, away from the rigours of their previous regimes.

The technical side of our game is not the issue for me.....We just don't compete....I mean properly compete not just run around with that melancholy look of surprise that anyone can have the audacity to takes us on......We are ****ing shadow boxing, in every sense of the word.

We have opposing teams who are motivated by our perceived superior status and we just sit back and have our belly's tickled......Its simply unprofessional and something quite honestly i didn't expect from a Steve Bruce team.

They compare Bruce with Pulis......Pulis for all his sins, wouldn't preside over that rubbish, we have seen over the last week...his teams are defensive, but they CAN defend.

We know the defence is woeful....blimey a long ball in the air in to the box and they all flap around like a flock of flamingo's.....It just destroys every bit of resilience we try to muster and motivates the opposition, without the help of their manager.

On the recent showings, we can forget all about promotion......and concentrate simply of the basic elements of the game.....which for me is clearly lacking.

All teams have bad games and all teams have dips.....when you dip to the low levels we can dip to, there is a serious problem in the make up of the team.....Steve Bruce cannot keep passing it off as a bad day at the office and despite new personnel, it seems to be making little difference.#

He said when he first arrived that we sign new players that are no better than we let go......well I can safely say Steve on this recent evidence nothing has changed.

I am not going to even try and defend that poor showing.

Edited September 3, 2018 by TRO

[Tommo_b]

2 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

Why do you think they will be so slow to act?

I don’t think he things they will be slow to re-act, but I think he believes Bruce will be given more rope to hang himself then just the one defeat, as even tho the football is dire, it would be very harsh to sack someone who had only lost one game in a season, so I agree it will probably take another 4 defeats in the next couple of months before they would contemplate it. 

[MarkLillis]

I think they are not looking to sack him.

I think the funds were made available for new players and Steve Bruce has to be allowed to bed these new players in.

McGinn looks good but is not at Snodgrass level yet

Nyland shows flash's of form but in general has not hit the ground running

EL Ghazi two games one assist one goal

Bolasie and Abrahams yet to play

Jedinak  is Bruce's choice at CB and also will get better as the season goes along (disclaimer - not saying I agree with this but he is a seasoned professional and can adjust to his new position)

We are definitely weaker this season at present than we were last year. I would say that we will improve as these players start to play to their full capabilities.

[Craigy1874]

I agree, and that is a **** depressing thought.

[YLN]

27 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

 

I wouldn't. His year payout starts the day you fire him. Why keep paying him in the wait time?  

What is? 

[TheStagMan]

The thing that worries me in all of this (actually terrifies me) is this: If we do not get promoted this season, what will be left with at the end of it? We have a half a team of loanees again, so they will go back to their parent clubs, Grealish will likely leave, as will Chester (especially if he has to endure a season of Jedinak next to him), Adomah will have been chased out of the club, Hutton will be out of contract, that's most of our first team gone, again. 

The only assets we would then have would be the likes of McGinn and Kodjia to build the club around, and we start from scratch again. 

 

If we get promoted then we will likely need to rebuild again, but should be able to keep Grealish and Chester and will be a more attractive proposition for players, plus we will actually have some money that we can spend under FFP

 

So, do I think Bruce can get us promoted. Categorically "No". Do I know some other manager will, No, I don't but I would rather role the dice on someone who might succeed rather than stick with someone who wont.

 

[HeyAnty]

21 minutes ago, MarkLillis said:

I think they are not looking to sack him.

I think the funds were made available for new players and Steve Bruce has to be allowed to bed these new players in.

McGinn looks good but is not at Snodgrass level yet

Nyland shows flash's of form but in general has not hit the ground running

EL Ghazi two games one assist one goal

Bolasie and Abrahams yet to play

Jedinak  is Bruce's choice at CB and also will get better as the season goes along (disclaimer - not saying I agree with this but he is a seasoned professional and can adjust to his new position)

We are definitely weaker this season at present than we were last year. I would say that we will improve as these players start to play to their full capabilities.

What about the other players he brought in last year that he through under the bus after Burton?  His track record proves he cant bed players in.  Also i totally disagree with you synopsis of Nyland (who has been awful) and Jedinak (who will never be a CB).

[villabromsgrove]

Bruce has got away with presiding over total rubbish week after week after week, with very few exceptions, because there's been no one to hold him to account.

That freedom to blag a living ended last Friday!

He now has to explain himself to a very bright and forceful CEO. Purslow is a severe 'Headmaster' type who will cut Bruce to pieces in the middle of his first waffled defence of our latest pathetic performance.

"Players told me they were fit, and I shouldn't have listened to them" .... Some of our players didn't put their boots on and embarrassed me" .... Sheffield United are a good team and will be fighting at the top of the table" .... I told them to roll their sleeves up because Sheff U would come at us fast, but they didn't".... I had to play those injured players, because I wasn't going to let any of the players who let me down against Burton anywhere near the team on Saturday".... I haven't made any of this up by the way!

Purslow is going to rip Steve a new one today!

[TRO]

21 hours ago, Cjay said:

If after 2 years you are still mainly reliant on individuals then thats pretty sad to.

Every club is somewhat reliant on a few players with the X factor but it shouldn't be your main source imo.

What happens if Grealish is having a bad day?

Clubs with less star names make it work, Cardiff got promoted ffs lol.

That is the crucial point for me.

We are getting turned over by players we would turn our nose up at signing.

That in itself tells a story.

[Pimlico_Villa]

The biggest travesty with playing Jedinak at CB is not that he isn't a CB, but that the last 2 seasons have shown that he simply cannot play every game, especially if there is more than 1 game in a week, which there usually is. CB is a much more physically demanding role than sitting in CDM and only moving around a 15m radius. 

If there is one constant you have in your team (in the League) it is your CB partnership and GK. If Bruce continues to pick him for each game, he will definitely pick up injuries. A replacement will be put in for 1 game and then Bruce will revert back to Jedinak. The result is nothing but disruption, made harder by the fact we have a GK that is still settling in. 

This is a mistake you'd expect from a rookie Manager, not one whose main strength is experience. 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

Bruce has got away with presiding over total rubbish week after week after week, with very few exceptions, because there's been no one to hold him to account.

That freedom to blag a living ended last Friday!

He now has to explain himself to a very bright and forceful CEO. Purslow is a severe 'Headmaster' type who will cut Bruce to pieces in the middle of his first waffled defence of our latest pathetic performance.

"Players told me they were fit, and I shouldn't have listened to them" .... Some of our players didn't put their boots on and embarrassed me" .... Sheffield United are a good team and will be fighting at the top of the table" .... I told them to roll their sleeves up because Sheff U would come at us fast, but they didn't".... I had to play those injured players, because I wasn't going to let any of the players who let me down against Burton anywhere near the team on Saturday".... I haven't made any of this up by the way!

Purslow is going to rip Steve a new one today!

You know how much I have defended him.....and I am not defending that showing on Saturday.

but those comments sound very much like remnants of the past.

I am disappointed by the responses.....He may be right in some of them.....but its his responsibility to make sure that doesn't happen.

In the immortal words of Sam Cooke........I fear........." Change gonna Come"

 

[YLN]

5 minutes ago, Pimlico_Villa said:

CB is a much more physically demanding role than sitting in CDM and only moving around a 15m radius.

Source? 

[villabromsgrove]

When Sawiris and Edens bought a majority share of AVFC I posted that regardless of whether they decided to keep Bruce, they should immediately give him 12 months notice that his current rolling contract would be terminated.

This would have had the effect of reducing any compensation on a daily basis, and would have put SB on notice that he should treat this season as his job application.

If that didn't happen, I'm guessing that it's certainly been implemented today by Purslow.

It makes financial sense, and it will end any residual complacency from our currently coasting manager.

At the moment Bruce knows that the worst that can happen is that he can be sacked with a very handsome one years salary in his 'holiday wallet'. If he's handed a years notice he now faces having his arse kicked on a regular basis, and no pay out next summer when his contract ends.

I actually believe that SB is very close to being sacked anyway, but a formal reprimand and a change in his contract will shake him up in the meantime.

[peterms]

53 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

I don’t think he things they will be slow to re-act, but I think he believes Bruce will be given more rope to hang himself then just the one defeat, as even tho the football is dire, it would be very harsh to sack someone who had only lost one game in a season, so I agree it will probably take another 4 defeats in the next couple of months before they would contemplate it. 

I've seen similar views expressed quite often, and I disagree.

It's a business decision, nothing personal or sentimental about it.  They don't owe him a chance to show what he can do, they don't and shouldn't wait for a string of defeats before acting.  If he's not what they want in the role, terminate his contract, pay him compensation, and move on.  Do it without badmouthing him or making a big fuss, just do it quickly and efficiently.

[srsmithusa]

I honestly think this "it's just one loss" argument is what's wrong with our club.  We tolerate and justify poor and mediocre performance.

We are in 12th place with 6 points between us and the leaders.  It's also 3 very poor draws, poor performances and we haven't played any of the top 4 yet.  It's also 90 some odd games of falling short, it's failing to meet expectations 2 years in a row, it's failing to create a system of play and an ethos of hard work, it's failing to improve and develop any young (or old) players other than Jack (and it could be argued that was down more to Terry and Snod and maybe Agnew).  It's signing players with great stats at other clubs and somehow they become much less effective.  It's blaming the players (who your are responsible to train, prepare, educate, and select).  The list of failures is long. 

But "it's only one loss," so on the basis of that one slim "positive" data point we keep him, and increase the chances that we are in the championships again next year.  To me, is a ludicrous decision.  I have no idea what our new board will do.  But I find it hard to believe that they will persist with a failing plan.  I don't think dithering appears to be in S&E's DNA.  But every day they fail to act makes me question that.

TBF, I was Bruce out before Bruce out was cool.  My patience for this inaction from the (old) board is worn so thin, I am baffled that he was not sacked long before now.  Not because he lost one match.  but because of the first and second paragraphs above.

I'm trying to be patient.  I keep hoping there is more the August decision than we know.  

[TRO]

32 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

The thing that worries me in all of this (actually terrifies me) is this: If we do not get promoted this season, what will be left with at the end of it? We have a half a team of loanees again, so they will go back to their parent clubs, Grealish will likely leave, as will Chester (especially if he has to endure a season of Jedinak next to him), Adomah will have been chased out of the club, Hutton will be out of contract, that's most of our first team gone, again. 

The only assets we would then have would be the likes of McGinn and Kodjia to build the club around, and we start from scratch again. 

 

If we get promoted then we will likely need to rebuild again, but should be able to keep Grealish and Chester and will be a more attractive proposition for players, plus we will actually have some money that we can spend under FFP

 

So, do I think Bruce can get us promoted. Categorically "No". Do I know some other manager will, No, I don't but I would rather role the dice on someone who might succeed rather than stick with someone who wont.

 

Well, you say all that, and I do know where you are coming from, but.

On recent evidence, these players that we have as marked down as superior talent are simply not applying that superiority and turning it in to superior performances.

Do we really have that much to lose....on the basis of what we are witnessing.

Maybe we do need to make a change and see if a new guy can get from them what they should be delivering, before its too late.

[srsmithusa]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Well, you say all that, and I do know where you are coming from, but.

On recent evidence, these players that we have as marked down as superior talent are simply not applying that superiority and turning it in to superior performances.

Do we really have that much to lose....on the basis of what we are witnessing.

Maybe we do need to make a change and see if a new guy can get from them what they should be delivering, before its too late.

Ya know, if half the players he brought in became less effective and less impactful but the other half thrived and continued to perform at a high level, and maybe even kicked on to become even better players, I could buy blaming the players for this.  But it's not half.  I can't think of a single player Bruce signed that has kicked on and become better by playing for him.  NOT ONE.  

it may be a team ethos, or it may be an ineffective manager.  But if it's the ethos, then that too falls on the manager to effectively address that.  He clearly has not.  By his own statements.  Of course he is blaming them for it.  

[villabromsgrove]

2 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

I honestly think this "it's just one loss" argument is what's wrong with our club.  We tolerate and justify poor and mediocre performance.

We are in 12th place with 6 points between us and the leaders.  It's also 3 very poor draws, poor performances and we haven't played any of the top 4 yet.  It's also 90 some odd games of falling short, it's failing to meet expectations 2 years in a row, it's failing to create a system of play and an ethos of hard work, it's failing to improve and develop any young (or old) players other than Jack (and it could be argued that was down more to Terry and Snod and maybe Agnew).  It's signing players with great stats at other clubs and somehow they become much less effective.  It's blaming the players (who your are responsible to train, prepare, educate, and select).  The list of failures is long. 

But "it's only one loss," so on the basis of that one slim "positive" data point we keep him, and increase the chances that we are in the championships again next year.  To me, is a ludicrous decision.  I have no idea what our new board will do.  But I find it hard to believe that they will persist with a failing plan.  I don't think dithering appears to be in S&E's DNA.  But every day they fail to act makes me question that.

TBF, I was Bruce out before Bruce out was cool.  My patience for this inaction from the (old) board is worn so thin, I am baffled that he was not sacked long before now.  Not because he lost one match.  but because of the first and second paragraphs above.

I'm trying to be patient.  I keep hoping there is more the August decision than we know.  

Good post.

i agree with you, I don't think Sawiris and Edens have been "dithering". I think they've been quietly going about the business of seeking professional advice before appointing the best possible CEO for the huge task ahead.

Now that Christian Purslow has been appointed things will begin to happen quickly. Purslow does not suffer fools gladly, and has a wide knowledge of managers and their suitability for the Villa job. His contacts book is stuffed with the right phone numbers, and I bet phones are already ringing.

Those of us who want Bruce to be replaced asap will be able to breathe a huge sigh of relief soon.

[Tommo_b]

13 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

I honestly think this "it's just one loss" argument is what's wrong with our club.  We tolerate and justify poor and mediocre performance.

We are in 12th place with 6 points between us and the leaders.  It's also 3 very poor draws, poor performances and we haven't played any of the top 4 yet.  It's also 90 some odd games of falling short, it's failing to meet expectations 2 years in a row, it's failing to create a system of play and an ethos of hard work, it's failing to improve and develop any young (or old) players other than Jack (and it could be argued that was down more to Terry and Snod and maybe Agnew).  It's signing players with great stats at other clubs and somehow they become much less effective.  It's blaming the players (who your are responsible to train, prepare, educate, and select).  The list of failures is long. 

But "it's only one loss," so on the basis of that one slim "positive" data point we keep him, and increase the chances that we are in the championships again next year.  To me, is a ludicrous decision.  I have no idea what our new board will do.  But I find it hard to believe that they will persist with a failing plan.  I don't think dithering appears to be in S&E's DNA.  But every day they fail to act makes me question that.

TBF, I was Bruce out before Bruce out was cool.  My patience for this inaction from the (old) board is worn so thin, I am baffled that he was not sacked long before now.  Not because he lost one match.  but because of the first and second paragraphs above.

I'm trying to be patient.  I keep hoping there is more the August decision than we know.  

While I get that, has there ever been a manager sacked 6 games into a season after one loss?