Steve Bruce

[Rob182]

2 hours ago, Hoof hearted said:

The problem here is Teflons media darling status, it means bullshit rumours won't be started (see Mourinho) and thus the owners won't really get a guage of our ire, unless they happen to be into the ramblings of some nerds, sitting in their pants, covered in wotsit dust on a Villa message board. 

Bruce isn't going anywhere until they see the banners at VP and he fully loses the away boys and girls. He'll continue to blag his way through and his media friends will continue to print it.

No, no, no. I'm sorry Hoof Hearted, but I can't agree with this. No way. I sit with my fingers and nuts covered in Doritos dust, not Wotsits. Get it right, pal!

[wazzap24]

Still the man for me.

#Brucein 

[AVFC44]

12 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

The players dont get a pass. No way. They were terrible. Bruce takes the Lions share of the blame and now I think the axe too, but the players have been rubbish this season. Basic mistakes are on their watch. 

 

Agreed, partly. But when the players are sent out with no real system (unless getting the ball and either passing to Jack and hoping he can produce something, or hoofing the ball up to Kodjia and hoping he can produce something count as a 'system') and multiple players played out of position (right back at left back, centre back at right back, defensive midfielder at centre back) it's no surprise that the players have been rubbish.

Of course you can't excuse simple mistakes which Bruce has no control over (Chester's foul for the penalty last weekend for example), but in that situation it was Bruce's substitutions that invited all the pressure in the first place. Why remove our only out-ball with a few minutes left to play and bring on another full back?

You can't make 8 changes to a regular starting 11 and expect them all to click and produce an all round perfect performance, but if we had a set system to play that had been worked on regularly over the last 2 years (TWO YEARS FFS) then we should at least manage to score a goal against Burton, who had conceded 10 goals in 5 games so far this season and also made changes. You can guarantee that teams like Man City and Tottenham would be able to make 8 changes and still produce a performance that resembles a 'normal' team performance in terms of style of play, intensity etc. albeit at perhaps a slightly lower standard. That's what we can't do. Bruce has just thrown 11 players together with no system and used that as fuel for his 'they're not good enough anyway and now I can prove it' argument.

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Yep.

I've never been one for blaming the players. They can share some of the blame, but ultimately the motivation of the players is down to the manager.

If things don't improve then Bruce will rightly take the blame.

Even if we were to go along with him and say the players were at fault, he was the one who signed almost all of them. Very disappointing seeing him try to shift the blame on the players.

[Zatman]

27 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

The players dont get a pass. No way. They were terrible. Bruce takes the Lions share of the blame and now I think the axe too, but the players have been rubbish this season. Basic mistakes are on their watch. 

 

Senior players have been shocking too. Chester 93rd minute brainfart or Nyland going into no mans land vs Ipswich or Jedi hospital pass vs Wigan

4 points cost us from them 3 mistakes and we got late winner vs Wigan luckily

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Senior players have been shocking too. Chester 93rd minute brainfart or Nyland going into no mans land vs Ipswich or Jedi hospital pass vs Wigan

4 points cost us from them 3 mistakes and we got late winner vs Wigan luckily

And a late equalizer against Brentford. Only game we looked comfortable was Hull. 

[bobzy]

9 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Even if we were to go along with him and say the players were at fault, he was the one who signed almost all of them. Very disappointing seeing him try to shift the blame on the players.

I didn't watch the game at all, but if the players were garbage then I don't really see how it's disappointing to say that?

[HeyAnty]

At least a Journalist is now coming out now and questioning him.  Matt is one of the very very few who does.

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, HeyAnty said:

You dont just throw all the fringe players into the one team and expect them to be able to play good football.  You give them a chance with a steady first team playing week in week out.  Also not to mention playing half the fringe team out of position.

I dont blame the players one bit last night.

You don't blame the players  "one bit" ? Never be a football manager you would be the biggest doormat ever.

[Guest av1]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

I didn't watch the game at all, but if the players were garbage then I don't really see how it's disappointing to say that?

I think the point being made is that many of us believe that the only decent players in the squad (Mcginn aside) are players that he inherited, all the shit players that aren't performing are Bruces own signings.

Now people will throw in Snodgrass, Terry and Johnstone, who were all very important players for us granted, but they were all loans which then raises questions about his ability to build a squad behond the short term. 

This season is exactly the same. By the close of loan window it's more than likely that half of the first team will be loans, all of which will likely by gone next season should we again fail to gain promotion (as will Grealish) and we will be back to square one. 

Going into his 4th season Bruce backers will then point to the fact that we need to cut poor old Bruce some slack because he's having to rebuild the squad again, and will completely ignore the irony that the only person to blame for that is Steve Bruce. 

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, av1 said:

I think the point being made is that many of us believe that the only decent players in the squad (Mcginn aside) are players that he inherited, all the shit players that aren't performing are Bruces own signings.

Now people will throw in Snodgrass, Terry and Johnstone, who were all very important players for us granted, but they were all loans which then raises questions about his ability to build a squad behond the short term. 

This season is exactly the same. By the close of loan window it's more than likely that half of the first team will be loans, all of which will likely by gone next season should we again fail to gain promotion (as will Grealish) and we will be back to square one. 

Going into his 4th season Bruce backers will then point to the fact that we need to cut poor old Bruce some slack because he's having to rebuild the squad again, and will completely ignore the irony that the only person to blame for that is Steve Bruce. 

I agree with all that - and his responsibility (and the largest one he has IMO) is picking the side and signing players.  So he obviously has a large portion of blame to take when he completely changes a team, to largely consist of his own signings, and for them to play terribly.

However, he says that.  He says he takes responsibility for that but that the players have let themselves down after "knocking down his door" (I imagine this is a dig at senior pros tbh - Taylor, Lansbury, Elphick maybe de Laet).  I don't see how it's disappointing to blame them too.  They're the ones that have the single greatest impact regarding what happens on the pitch, after all.

[Keyblade]

9 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I didn't watch the game at all, but if the players were garbage then I don't really see how it's disappointing to say that?

Throwing the players under the bus is never a good look. He's responsible for them. He signed them. He picked them. Even if they were garbage, it's poor form to point fingers and absolve yourself of blame imo. 

But also it's just bad man management. Normally managers frame it as "we were bad", "we did this" etc to imply they share part of the blame.

I wonder how the players are taking it. I imagine they can't be very happy about never playing, then being publicly criticized when losing after being thrown together haphazardly for one match.

[rodders0223]

2 hours ago, Hoof hearted said:

The problem here is Teflons media darling status, it means bullshit rumours won't be started (see Mourinho) and thus the owners won't really get a guage of our ire, unless they happen to be into the ramblings of some nerds, sitting in their pants, covered in wotsit dust on a Villa message board. 

 

 

It's like someone took my life and put it right on screen.

[Guest av1]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I agree with all that - and his responsibility (and the largest one he has IMO) is picking the side and signing players.  So he obviously has a large portion of blame to take when he completely changes a team, to largely consist of his own signings, and for them to play terribly.

However, he says that.  He says he takes responsibility for that but that the players have let themselves down after "knocking down his door" (I imagine this is a dig at senior pros tbh - Taylor, Lansbury, Elphick maybe de Laet).  I don't see how it's disappointing to blame them too.  They're the ones that have the single greatest impact regarding what happens on the pitch, after all.

And i don't disagree with that, if the players are shit they have to take some of the blame. 

I guess the difference between me and you (if you still support Bruce?) Is down to percentages. How much of it is down to the players and how much of it is down to Bruce. 

For me, the vast majority is on Bruces head for the reasons I've outlined over the last few pages. 

[HeyAnty]

5 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Throwing the players under the bus is never a good look. He's responsible for them. He signed them. He picked them. Even if they were garbage, it's poor form to point fingers and absolve yourself of blame imo. 

But also it's just bad man management. Normally managers frame it as "we were bad", "we did this" etc to imply they share part of the blame.

I wonder how the players are taking it. I imagine they can't be very happy about never playing, then being publicly criticized when losing after being thrown together haphazardly for one match.

Yeah he got personal last night with players.  Prior he was using the words 'were' and 'we'.  When that happens with managers normally the end is nigh. 

[Hoof hearted]

3 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

It's like someone took my life and put it right on screen.

Doctor doctor, my nads have turned yellow...

(What happened?)...

Well, I was watching Baywatch eating Wotsits...

[bobzy]

Just now, av1 said:

And i don't disagree with that, if the players are shit they have to take some of the blame. 

I guess the difference between me and you (if you still support Bruce?) Is down to percentages. How much of it is down to the players and how much of it is down to Bruce. 

For me, the vast majority is on Bruces head for the reasons I've outlined over the last few pages. 

I hate the term "support Bruce" or "Bruce backers" etc - I'm neither in favour nor against him.  Most of the time I find myself going against those who adamantly want him out is that reason appears not to be a thing.  I didn't consider last season a "failure" (I quite enjoyed it!) and we're not complete shit.  So, whilst the manager could be doing better and our football could be better too, we're not in a crisis and not doing terribly.  If that changes, I'll likely want Bruce gone.  Until then, I'm more a "meh".  Apparently, this means I'm incredibly pro Bruce.  Go figure...

Ultimately, bad performances over a period of time will end up being because of the manager.  To be a cliched as possible, the buck stops there.  However, as a one-off match (and unless some really bizarre decisions were made by the manager anyway, as I say, I didn't see the game at all) more "blame" should be apportioned to those on the pitch - unless you're of the view that the team put out simply wasn't good enough to beat Burton's.

[Delphinho123]

He needs to go. I agree completely with Matt Law. Bruce's answer to everything is to sign more players. Sign more right backs. Sign more central midfielders. Sign more centre halves (I wish).
In any other business, you wouldn't be able to get away with spending millions, admitting you've done a piss poor job of spending that money and get away with it (apart from Banking).

I'm of the opinion we'll float around 8th/9th with Bruce at the helm but I doubt he'll ever take us up. He's yesterdays man and is living an incredibly charmed life at our football club to the point where I dont think he can believe his own luck. 

[Guest av1]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I hate the term "support Bruce" or "Bruce backers" etc - I'm neither in favour nor against him. 

In which case i apologise for using that label. 

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

 Most of the time I find myself going against those who adamantly want him out is that reason appears not to be a thing.  I didn't consider last season a "failure" (I quite enjoyed it!) and we're not complete shit. 

I agree that failure is probably to strong a word, but i believe that in far to many games last season his limitations as a manager cost us points. Whilst getting to the playoff final seems like a decent season (which it was), i believe our squad of players were capable of much, much more, and i genuinely believe Bruce was a huge factor in not achieving that. 

6 minutes ago, bobzy said:

 So, whilst the manager could be doing better and our football could be better too, we're not in a crisis

Again, crisis is too strong a word. But as i said above, half the team are again loans who will gone next season and another squad will need to be completely rebuilt. So crisis? No maybe not, but he certainly isn't going to build anything lasting. 

9 minutes ago, bobzy said:

unless you're of the view that the team put out simply wasn't good enough to beat Burton's.

Those players should be capable of beating Burton in terms of ability, yes.

But you have Elphick who has effectively been told that he's not as good as an old CDM, Taylor who can't get in the team ahead of a RB, Axel who has now played at RB and CDM rather than his postion at CB, Lansbury who struggles to even make match day squads, and Hourihane who after a decent enough season last year now finds himself in the B team. 

Throw in a young 5ft striker who only has long balls as service and its not really shocking they put in a performance like last night. 

 

[rodders0223]

If he had just arrived or been in the job 6 months and he was digging people out then I would say fair enough, give them both barrels. Look for a reaction as it's not acceptable.

He has been here long enough though, he has worked with these players long enough. It falls on his head, but the constant.

"I didn't tell them to play like that."

"They didn't do this, they didn't do that."

It's becoming a joke now. It rests with Bruce and his coaching staff and nobody else. It's unacceptable after 2 years in the job. Unacceptable. If Bruce cannot get a tune out of them then hold hands up and admit you aren't up to it.