Steve Bruce

[sheepyvillian]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

• Who said that?.....That is pure conjecture.....but maybe someone thought it?
• We maybe one of the biggest clubs in the Championship, but so are Sunderland......Its what you do, not what you are.
• You are of course entitled to your opinion Sheepy and you have to live with the disappointment of your expectation, unless you adjust it to make footballing life a little more bearable by appreciating the day to day enhancements that we have achieved since his arrival.....If your satisfaction is purely gleaned from achieving targets or trophies, you could be a disappointed soul.....Man U before SAF went 20 years without a trophy.....Before Sir Ron we languished from season to season with a dispirited set up.....There are no guarantee's in this world of football.....It is self satisfying to appreciate the enhancements IMO. To under value the character and Spirit that SB has managed to create is very,very harsh for me .....so many others before him have failed to do Iit....No one is ever going get you to appreciate the work of Steve Bruce because winner takes all with your view......I get the view that even if he gets us up, some other obstacle will be sought to resist your appreciation for him, because you will look for aone. But we haven't failed yet.....lets debate it when we have.

That's confidence for you. Good to see you have so much faith in the manager you so admire.

 

 

[terrytini]

3 minutes ago, omariqy said:

That is a rubbish argument I am sorry. No matter who the manager or player is if they underperform then they get dropped/sold/sacked.

Well I don’t like to be rude ( but you started it !) that’s rubbish. If people were sacked every time they failed/ underperformed/missed targets there’d be hardly anyone in work.

Thats the point isn’t it. You say success= promotion. Nothing else, no excuses. Anything else is Failure, and Failure = Sack.

Rubbish is a very polite way of describing that thinking....but I’m never going to convince you.

And “ he’s one of the best Managers until he proves otherwise “ ? Have you read that back to yourself ?? What on earth is that. Lol ?

You mean in your view he is one of the best Managers in the League, but if Fulham or Cardiff end up with even 1 more Point than us, he isn’t ?

Honestly the debate is surreal sometimes.

 

[Villarocker]

5 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Well I don’t like to be rude ( but you started it !) that’s rubbish. If people were sacked every time they failed/ underperformed/missed targets there’d be hardly anyone in work.

Thats the point isn’t it. You say success= promotion. Nothing else, no excuses. Anything else is Failure, and Failure = Sack.

Rubbish is a very polite way of describing that thinking....but I’m never going to convince you.

And “ he’s one of the best Managers until he proves otherwise “ ? Have you read that back to yourself ?? What on earth is that. Lol ?

You mean in your view he is one of the best Managers in the League, but if Fulham or Cardiff end up with even 1 more Point than us, he isn’t ?

Honestly the debate is surreal sometimes.

 

That's right because sacking managers for failing is always the right thing to do. Just ask Burnley fans! 

[terrytini]

25 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

you're doing it again though proclaiming your not comparing things on going on to compare them.

ultimately 1 manager achieved what was asked of him when he arrived and the other did not.  Managers who do not meet expectations regardless of resources lose their jobs and rightly so.

they are hired to achieve X result, if they fail, they lose their jobs - thats just how it works.

Ans should we fail to gain promotion i expect a new manager next season

You seem to be saying if he does what the Board ask of him he’s fine, if not, he’s sacked.

So if Tony comes out and says  “ we are keeping Steve because despite narrowly missing out on promotion, which was our number one aim, he got very close, which I consider a terrific effort from where we were, he has succeeded in all the other aspects I asked of him, he has wages where I want them, he is developing the youths as I want, he has fostered a tremendous spirit at the Club, he plays football how I asked him to, and I think our best chance to progress is to keep him and build on that”.......you will be ok with that ?

Because for all you or I know that is exactly how Tony views it. It’s pure speculation to say that he has only been set one criteria by the Club, and that it’s a Pass or Fail.

It might be, And then so be it, he will go. But it could easily not be.

[terrytini]

19 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

That's confidence for you. Good to see you have so much faith in the manager you so admire.

 

 

So we have one fan trying to see the good in our Manager, and another trying to see the bad in him doing so.

No further comment.

[sheepyvillian]

28 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

Bruce has shown here and throughout his career that building sides around young players isnt what he is good at.

For Aston Villa to survive should we fail to gain promotion through the play offs lwe will need to build around our youth.

why on earth would we keep a man we know cant do the job that needs doing on the basis that he did alright with the most resources in the division?

Because he's a really nice man.

[flashingqwerty]

14 minutes ago, terrytini said:

You seem to be saying if he does what the Board ask of him he’s fine, if not, he’s sacked.

So if Tony comes out and says  “ we are keeping Steve because despite narrowly missing out on promotion, which was our number one aim, he got very close, which I consider a terrific effort from where we were, he has succeeded in all the other aspects I asked of him, he has wages where I want them, he is developing the youths as I want, he has fostered a tremendous spirit at the Club, he plays football how I asked him to, and I think our best chance to progress is to keep him and build on that”.......you will be ok with that ?

Because for all you or I know that is exactly how Tony views it. It’s pure speculation to say that he has only been set one criteria by the Club, and that it’s a Pass or Fail.

It might be, And then so be it, he will go. But it could easily not be.

well wyness and round, and if i recall correctly even Xia, have all stated quite strongly that the manager foremost goal is promotion so if he did in fact say those words i'd be concerned about Xia and the club for other reasons than SB.

but should we fail to win promotion, it would not the the only thing you listed that i believe he has failed to do.

[sheepyvillian]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

So we have one fan trying to see the good in our Manager, and another trying to see the bad in him doing so.

No further comment.

I think you missed something there.

Don't be so hasty. I was referring to TRO'S confidence in Bruce's ability to get us promoted this season. He did' nt seem too certain in his belief, but at least he seemed to acknowledge that no promotion will be deemed a failure.

[villa4europe]

23 minutes ago, villarocker said:

That's right because sacking managers for failing is always the right thing to do. Just ask Burnley fans! 

Really bad comparison, you could and still can see what dyche gets grom his team despite their limitations, its good management and accepting that he wasnt the problem when they went down and as such it wasnt really a failure, it was having a good go at defying expectation and falling short

thats not steve bruce 

[briny_ear]

34 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

Bruce has shown here and throughout his career that building sides around young players isnt what he is good at.

For Aston Villa to survive should we fail to gain promotion through the play offs lwe will need to build around our youth.

why on earth would we keep a man we know cant do the job that needs doing on the basis that he did alright with the most resources in the division?

Are you sure that building a side around young players will be the best way to survive the first couple of seasons back in tne premier league?

Seems to me that may be a longer term plan once we’ve established ourselves back in the prem. But I wouldn’t ask a bunch of kids to face those first couple of seasons.

Bruce has form on helping newly-promoted clubs to settle in mid-table and if he could do that for Villa, it would give cover for bringing on a younger squad to build from there.

[sheepyvillian]

8 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Since when were you the authority on such matters?

People can choose to accept whatever they want to.

No matter how often or vociferously you try to make yourself heard I will not accept that he's been a failure, irrespective of what happens between now and June.

Oh and also, it's 'would have', not "would of".

You honestly don't think I'm that anal to let a bit of bad grammar effect me.

I'm sensing a room dedicated to a model railway . When Jonah exposed you, I knew what you were all about, and that post confirms it.

Remember this, Sheepy is made of the finest timber. It's okay, you'll be fine. I have that effect, in fact the girls find it very sexy.

[flashingqwerty]

1 minute ago, briny_ear said:

Are you sure that building a side around young players will be the best way to survive the first couple of seasons back in tne premier league?

Seems to me that may be a longer term plan once we’ve established ourselves back in the prem. But I wouldn’t ask a bunch of kids to face those first couple of seasons.

Bruce has form on helping newly-promoted clubs to settle in mid-table and if he could do that for Villa, it would give cover for bringing on a younger squad to build from there.

i think you may have taken my post out of context briny, i was referring to next deason should we fail to be promoted.

by all reports we will need to half our wage bill overnight to balance the books for another season in the championship- and to me that means focusing on youth and having a longer term outlook is likely the prudent choice.

[Junxs]

Before Grealish came into the team, many fans were questioning what our "style" of football was with over a year of Bruce in charge - we just didnt know. It seemed we just passed it back to the keeper to lump it up the pitch then fight for the 2nd ball. Sometimes it got results other times it didnt. In fact there was a stat going around at the time that we had only 1 win against the teams in the top 10 at that point. That system worked against the teams in the lower half but not the better sides. When Grealish came into the team we started playing much better.

The point I'm making though is if we dont go up the better players including Grealish may not be here next season, so the football would revert back to how it was pre December. Somebody made a really good point a few pages back about would Bruce be able to do what Warnock did at Cardiff with the budget he had, I dont think he could either. He has been blessed with a very good squad this season, next season it wont be half as good as parachute payments will be minimal - which is why I think it would be better to let someone else have a go.

However we still have a good chance of going up depending on if Fulham can make the autos or not, so lets all get behind him for now!

 

[briny_ear]

3 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

i think you may have taken my post out of context briny, i was referring to next deason should we fail to be promoted.

by all reports we will need to half our wage bill overnight to balance the books for another season in the championship- and to me that means focusing on youth and having a longer term outlook is likely the prudent choice.

Thanks for clarifying. If we stay down things may be difficult but we won’t know how bad unless and until the situation arises. Seems to me an awful lot of people are making the default assumption we won’t get promoted.

I’m assuming we will and therefore I won’t spend too much effort thinking about the Implications of failure until the day arrives.

[blandy]

9 hours ago, terrytini said:

You seem to be saying if he does what the Board ask of him he’s fine, if not, he’s sacked.

So if Tony comes out and says  “ we are keeping Steve because despite narrowly missing out on promotion, which was our number one aim, he got very close, which I consider a terrific effort from where we were, he has succeeded in all the other aspects I asked of him, he has wages where I want them, he is developing the youths as I want, he has fostered a tremendous spirit at the Club, he plays football how I asked him to, and I think our best chance to progress is to keep him and build on that”.......you will be ok with that ?

Because for all you or I know that is exactly how Tony views it. It’s pure speculation to say that he has only been set one criteria by the Club, and that it’s a Pass or Fail.

It might be, And then so be it, he will go. But it could easily not be.

The first line is exactly right.

the second para may come to pass, as we’ve said before.

the third I disagree really. Both Steve Bruce and Kieth Wyness have spoken openly about the objective of promotion as the absolute objective. Bruce has also spoken about he knows what will happen if he fails to get it.

its possible that they may change their minds, but given the very public and repeated assertions that the aim was promotion within 2 seasons, it’s quite reasonable to believe that remains the case. To call that “speculation” goes against the evidence. You’re right there will be smaller targets like wages etc. But the managers role is “get us up by the end of this season”.

[Vive_La_Villa]

If as a fan you feel he is one of the best managers in the league and has underachieved based on what he is capable of then I'd understand you'd want to give him another chance. 

If on the other hand you do not think he is capable of getting us promoted via top 2 you would hope the board make a change. 

I fall in the latter camp. 

[Stevo985]

10 hours ago, omariqy said:

That is a rubbish argument I am sorry. No matter who the manager or player is if they underperform then they get dropped/sold/sacked. 

I don't think I agree.

He should be sacked if we think that underperformance will carry on next season.

If the opinion is (and I'm not saying mine is) "He underperformed this season but he'll get it right next season" then sacking him would be mental.

 

A manager's job should be based on the future, not the past. If we don't go up this season, but Bruce can get us promoted next season, he should be kept on (again, I'm not saying that is my opinion, just making the point that no promotion shouldn't necessarily mean the sack)

[Demitri_C]

From what i have seen starting strong is crucial in this league. In both seasons we have started pathetically

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

The first line is exactly right.

the second para may come to pass, as we’ve said before.

the third I disagree really. Both Steve Bruce and Kieth Wyness have spoken openly about the objective of promotion as the absolute objective. Bruce has also spoken about he knows what will happen if he fails to get it.

its possible that they may change their minds, but given the very public and repeated assertions that the aim was promotion within 2 seasons, it’s quite reasonable to believe that remains the case. To call that “speculation” goes against the evidence. You’re right there will be smaller targets like wages etc. But the managers role is “get us up by the end of this season”.

I’ve no doubt the aim was promotion. And I heard the public proclamations.

And it is entirely possible that Tony appointed Bruce telling him, “ nothing, nothing, matters other than Promotion. Anything less than Promotion means you will be sacked, without debate. Even if injuries mean you have to field the Under 12s it’s Promotion...or you are out”. Or words to that effect. Some form of totally unambiguous, categorical, binary choice. Entirely possible.

But I doubt it, and I’d certainly question the Owners thought processes if he did.

Hence, I stand by what I said, it’s speculation.

I certainly place very very little store by a couple of public pronouncements having, well, basically, having watched football and public life for 50 years. I mean they were hardly going to come out and say, “ Promotion would be nice but let’s not get hung up on it”.

If you consider it a known fact, or that anything other than the sack would be a “ change of mind”,  I’ve no issue with that. 

[terrytini]

15 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

From what i have seen starting strong is crucial in this league. In both seasons we have started pathetically

Very very true. 18 points from a possible 54, off the top of my head. Whatever we do, if we are in this League next year we will need to be 100% sorted and ready to go on Day 1. Keep your eyes on those meaningless friendlies !!