Steve Bruce

[jim]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

My opinion continues to change. I'm currently more on the side of sticking with him even if we fail in the playoffs. 

Hell no!

[Dr_Pangloss]

There's no real argument for keeping him here if he fails to get us up. Would be two seasons in a row where he has failed to deliver on his objectives.

[markavfc40]

3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

For me it wasn't the fact he had a dig at the fans it was more that he felt criticism at the time wasn't warranted. That's what I found a little odd. 

I actually think where Bruce went wrong in terms of the criticism was that given it was coming from a very small minority of the fan base it didn't really warrant comment. I do actually think the wider point he was trying to make at the time was a valid one that we can't keep throwing the baby out with the bath water every time we have a bad run or sniff of one. 

It really doesn't matter though does it. If you counted up the amount of times he praised the supporters against the times he has had what some consider a dig it would be 25-1 in terms of his praise of the fan base.

3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I personally do not think we can because whenever we've looked like we've turned a corner and put a good run of games together it seems to followed by a run of games from a team I can hardly recognise. 

I think that is unfair. Since we lost to Brentford on Boxing day we have played 21 games. We have had one run of games where we went three games without a win (QPR, Bolton and Hull). Aside from that we have never gone more than a single game without winning the next one. In the main aside from the odd games we have played well over the last 4 months. Very well in some games in fact.

We have well and truly turned a corner under Bruce and I think yesterday was a great example of how far we have come. It wasn't so long ago when the worst thing for us was having too much possession as we were clueless as to what to do with it and struggled to break sides down. Rowetts game plan yesterday was clearly allow us to have the ball, stick 10 men behind it and frustrate us then break quickly. We handled it beautifully for me as we were excellent in possession. We were patient, moved the ball across the field quickly, had good movement, created numerous openings and had we won 4 or 5-1 Derby could not have felt hard done by.

I wouldn't want to be in the opposing dug out going into the play offs as I wouldn't know how to set up against us now. Come at us and we are capable of breaking quickly with the pace of Grabban, Adomah, Kodjia and drive and guile of Snodgrass and Grealish, sit back, put 10 men behind the ball and try and frustrate us and we are capable of moving the ball around and finding openings as we showed yesterday. In tight games we also have 3 or 4 players who can produce something out of nothing.

It has understandably taken time but I think it has now come together nicely and Bruce has now put a team on the pitch that is a match for anyone and can adapt to however the opposition set up to negate us. We couldn't be in much better shape going into the play offs.

Edited April 29, 2018 by markavfc40

[bannedfromHandV]

28 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

There's no real argument for keeping him here if he fails to get us up. Would be two seasons in a row where he has failed to deliver on his objectives.

I don't think that's entirely fair, yes it was possible for him to have achieved promotion last season but taking everything into account it was a tall order. 

If going for a black and white view then yes, not getting promoted this season would equal failure but to ignore all the progress made during his time here, in favour of someone else MAYBE doing a better job, would be short sighted, in my opinion. 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by bannedfromHandV

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

I think that is unfair. Since we lost to Brentford on Boxing day we have played 21 games. We have had one run of games where we went three games without a win (QPR, Bolton and Hull). Aside from that we have never gone more than a single game without winning the next one. In the main aside from the odd games we have played well over the last 4 months. Very well in some games in fact.

Fair enough. If we take the form since that game of the three teams that battled for 2nd it looks like this

Fulham 53

Aston Villa 45

Cardiff 42

So I can see why you think Bruce has turned a corner and if can continue that form we'll be one of the favourites next season.

Now in my opinion that form has coincided with the return of Grealish and he has had a bigger impact on the team that it has to do with Bruce turning a corner. I guess only time will tell. 

[srsmithusa]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

I actually think where Bruce went wrong in terms of the criticism was that given it was coming from a very small minority of the fan base it didn't really warrant comment. I do actually think the wider point he was trying to make at the time was a valid one that we can't keep throwing the baby out with the bath water every time we have a bad run or sniff of one. 

It really doesn't matter though does it. If you counted up the amount of times he praised the supporters against the times he has had what some consider a dig it would be 25-1 in terms of his praise of the fan base.

I think that is unfair. Since we lost to Brentford on Boxing day we have played 21 games. We have had one run of games where we went three games without a win (QPR, Bolton and Hull). Aside from that we have never gone more than a single game without winning the next one. In the main aside from the odd games we have played well over the last 4 months. Very well in some games in fact.

We have well and truly turned a corner under Bruce and I think yesterday was a great example of how far we have come. It wasn't so long ago when the worst thing for us was having too much possession as we were clueless as to what to do with it and struggled to break sides down. Rowetts game plan yesterday was clearly allow us to have the ball, stick 10 men behind it and frustrate us then break quickly. We handled it beautifully for me as we were excellent in possession. We were patient, moved the ball across the field quickly, had good movement, created numerous openings and had we won 4 or 5-1 Derby could not have felt hard done by.

I wouldn't want to be in the opposing dug out going into the play offs as I wouldn't know how to set up against us now. Come at us and we are capable of breaking quickly with the pace of Grabban, Adomah, Kodjia and drive and guile of Snodgrass and Grealish, sit back, put 10 men behind the ball and try and frustrate us and we are capable of moving the ball around and finding openings as we showed yesterday. In tight games we also have 3 or 4 players who can produce something out of nothing.

It has understandably taken time but I think it has now come together nicely and Bruce has now put a team on the pitch that is a match for anyone and can adapt to however the opposition set up to negate us. We couldn't be in much better shape going into the play offs.

Sorry to be cynical, but you agree that criticizing fans was not good. But you can create a more carefully crafted reply and then assume that your response is what he intended, so he’s ok with you based on the point you think he meant to make.  Not the point he actually made.  

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Fair enough. If we take the form since that game of the three teams that battled for 2nd it looks like this

Fulham 53

Aston Villa 45

Cardiff 42

So I can see why you think Bruce has turned a corner and if can continue that form we'll be one of the favourites next season.

Now in my opinion that form has coincided with the return of Grealish and he has had a bigger impact on the team that it has to do with Bruce turning a corner. I guess only time will tell. 

I agree. I don't think he/we were helped by being without Grealish for half a season and Kodjia for 90% of it. I think both of them fit for even 3/4 of the season and we'd have been up already. For any manager to be successful and get the best from his squad though he needs his best players fit and Bruce is no different. You could also say we have been helped by Grabban since he came in.

Bottom line is I guess the manager put the squad together and when he can put out our best side we are more than a match for every other club. That is why as we go into the play offs, with hopefully pretty much a fully fit squad, I am supremely confident.

Edited April 29, 2018 by markavfc40

[TRO]

8 hours ago, terrytini said:

I understand the view but would differ in that I don’t think you win 24 games and score over 70 goals without decent performances..... I think fans always look at their own Clubs performances critically

 just one example - I posted recently from a Fulham’s Fan Forum during a game in which Villa fans were saying how well Fulham were playing whilst the Fulham fans had the same criticisms of their team as we do of ours..... I think it’s common to all.

Likewise the guy earlier who said he wants to see that kind of football all the time ....I just don’t think it works like that...yet the fact that we do play it is surely an indication it’s what the Manager wants.

The huge, huge, difference for me is that for months now we ( usually) look like that’s how we want to play, whereas in his first year there’s no doubt he kept the brakes on.

In my view if he stays we will see much more of that next season if in this League.

Well put Terry.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Fair enough. If we take the form since that game of the three teams that battled for 2nd it looks like this

Fulham 53

Aston Villa 45

Cardiff 42

So I can see why you think Bruce has turned a corner and if can continue that form we'll be one of the favourites next season.

Now in my opinion that form has coincided with the return of Grealish and he has had a bigger impact on the team that it has to do with Bruce turning a corner. I guess only time will tell. 

I struggle with this logic a tad.

on one hand you focus on bruce for the way we play, in a derogatory sense....then you accept our improvement on the back of Jack returning.

Players availability are central to a managers performance.

Every team gets affected by losing their best players.The manager has to deal with that the best he can.....but there is only so much he can do.

which ever way you look at it......Managers need their best players and without them their team drops down a gear.

Steve Bruce or any other manager cannot wave a magic wand and negate the impact of 2 or 3 of your best players getting long term injuries.

you cope of course, but going for promotion is a whole different ball game.

Edited April 29, 2018 by TRO

[Stevo985]

4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Fair enough. If we take the form since that game of the three teams that battled for 2nd it looks like this

Fulham 53

Aston Villa 45

Cardiff 42

So I can see why you think Bruce has turned a corner and if can continue that form we'll be one of the favourites next season.

Now in my opinion that form has coincided with the return of Grealish and he has had a bigger impact on the team that it has to do with Bruce turning a corner. I guess only time will tell. 

Do you think maybe Grealish producing the best form of his career might have something to do with Steve Bruce being his manager and building the team around him?

Almost as if Bruce knew how good Grealish was and manages to get the best out of him and use that to the team's benefit?

 

You talk as if it's all just one big lucky accident.

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I struggle with this logic a tad.

on one hand you focus on bruce for the way we play, in a derogatory sense....then you accept our improvement on the back of Jack returning.

Players availability are central to a managers performance.

Every team gets affected by losing their best players.The manager has to deal with that the best he can.....but there is only so much he can do.

which ever way you look at it......Managers need their best players and without them their team drops down a gear.

Steve Bruce or any other manager cannot wave a magic wand and negate the impact of 2 or 3 of your best players getting long term injuries.

you cope of course, but going for promotion is a whole different ball game.

Managers do need their best players. Bruce needs Jack.  If we don't go up I can see Jack leaving. If that happens is it fair to want a managerial  change? 

[TRO]

8 hours ago, DCJonah said:

My opinion continues to change. I'm currently more on the side of sticking with him even if we fail in the playoffs. 

I think your opinion changing is natural.

we all have our wobbly moments, including me.

[thejoker]

8 hours ago, DCJonah said:

My opinion continues to change. I'm currently more on the side of sticking with him even if we fail in the playoffs. 

If we don’t get promoted with, by far, the biggest wage bill in the division, then he should not continue. It’s as simple as that to me.

[TheAuthority]

3 minutes ago, thejoker said:

If we don’t get promoted with, by far the biggest wage bill in the division, then he should not continue. It’s as simple as that to me.

What's your source for this? Do you know how large Wolves wage bill is?

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Do you think maybe Grealish producing the best form of his career might have something to do with Steve Bruce being his manager and building the team around him?

Almost as if Bruce knew how good Grealish was and manages to get the best out of him and use that to the team's benefit?

 

You talk as if it's all just one big lucky accident.

Bruce may have had a massive impact on how Grealish played. That's why I said only time will tell. 

I haven't seen a change to how he sets us up since Grealish returned. I've just seen a player slotted in to a position that Bruce likes a player to play. That player happens to be head and shoulders above everyone else that has played their all season and that has made a massive different to how we have performanced.

I don't think Bruce has done anything remarkable in how he has asked Grealish to play to get the best out him. Grealish just naturally runs the game because he is so much better than the rest of the team. 

Now whether he has had a massive impact on him as a man manager giving him belief and confidence I don't know.  He may have done so and deserves credit for that if it's the case. 

 

[terrytini]

5 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

There's no real argument for keeping him here if he fails to get us up. Would be two seasons in a row where he has failed to deliver on his objectives.

In my view there are good arguments for keeping him, and for not doing so. I’ve a definite preference which I’ve certainly not based on no evidence....but I accept others want him gone, also based on evidence.

What I would be very very disappointed to see, however, is him being sacked simply as a form of punishment for his failure to “ deliver on his objectives”. I think it’s irrelevant.

Sack him because there’s good reason to think there’s a candidate who will get 10 points more than this year, or keep him if you think he’s most likely to.....but don’t make a decision for the future based on any perceived failure so far.

[terrytini]

5 minutes ago, thejoker said:

If we don’t get promoted with, by far, the biggest wage bill in the division, then he should not continue. It’s as simple as that to me.

But You are saying 

“ I think the wages we pay = promotion or the sack”.........

....whilst it’s fair enough for you to have whatever opinion you like I dearly hope, and am quite certain, that our owner will think it’s a little more complicated and involved than that.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Managers do need their best players. Bruce needs Jack.  If we don't go up I can see Jack leaving. If that happens is it fair to want a managerial  change? 

I respectfully ask you to look at where we were when he arrived.

much has changed since his arrival......without going through all the detail over and over again....its hugely significant.

a sly glance at Sunderland, could remind US what could of been.

This clamour for a new manager is dismissing much that has been done as a given....it isn't....far from it.

 A New manager, may, may offer us something new......but can we be sure that we keep the good bits of our recovery?

Its a gamble, i am not prepared to take.

I believe we will continue to build under Bruce and i think he is well aware of our short comings.

you only have to look at the goals for and against....from last year to this to see the transformation of reliance on defence to attack.....he has morphed that.....there is much more to come, but you need the players to do it....he knows that.

We need to build on what we have achieved not pull it asunder.

[jackbauer24]

I think it's universally agreed/accepted that next year we will not have the same resources as we do this year.

So if Bruce fails to get us promoted after having plenty of time and with greater resources than he'll have next year then he should be sacked. If he can't do it this year, he won't do it with inferior players next season. 

I think we're going to be in this division next year and, as such, are going to have a massive overhaul due to returning loanees, ending contracts and reduced budget. I'd rather start with a new manager and properly start from scratch in the hope of building something great. Bruce is not a manager for the future, his era of management is ending.

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I struggle with this logic a tad.

on one hand you focus on bruce for the way we play, in a derogatory sense....then you accept our improvement on the back of Jack returning.

Players availability are central to a managers performance.

Every team gets affected by losing their best players.The manager has to deal with that the best he can.....but there is only so much he can do.

which ever way you look at it......Managers need their best players and without them their team drops down a gear.

Steve Bruce or any other manager cannot wave a magic wand and negate the impact of 2 or 3 of your best players getting long term injuries.

you cope of course, but going for promotion is a whole different ball game.

Managers do need their best players. Bruce needs Jack.  If we don't go up I can see Jack leaving. If that happens is it fair to want a managerial  change?