Steve Bruce

[thejoker]

13 minutes ago, terrytini said:

But You are saying 

“ I think the wages we pay = promotion or the sack”.........

....whilst it’s fair enough for you to have whatever opinion you like I dearly hope, and am quite certain, that our owner will think it’s a little more complicated and involved than that.

Of course we should expect promotion with the biggest wage bill. If we didn’t expect promotion then we wouldn’t be paying the big wages. 

It’s not really a complicated decision in my opinion. No promotion = failure.

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

I think it's universally agreed/accepted that next year we will not have the same resources as we do this year.

So if Bruce fails to get us promoted after having plenty of time and with greater resources than he'll have next year then he should be sacked. If he can't do it this year, he won't do it with inferior players next season. 

I think we're going to be in this division next year and, as such, are going to have a massive overhaul due to returning loanees, ending contracts and reduced budget. I'd rather start with a new manager and properly start from scratch in the hope of building something great. Bruce is not a manager for the future, his era of management is ending.

But arguably.......our 4 best players, could most likely be still with us

 

• Kodjia
• Terry
• Grealisj
• Chester

A good start.....some or the youngsters will be 12 months further developed.

Its not all doom and Gloom.....i don't think They will allow that.

Edited April 29, 2018 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

I respectfully ask you to look at where we were when he arrived.

much has changed since his arrival......without going through all the detail over and over again....its hugely significant.

a sly glance at Sunderland, could remind US what could of been.

This clamour for a new manager is dismissing much that has been done as a given....it isn't....far from it.

 A New manager, may, may offer us something new......but can we be sure that we keep the good bits of our recovery?

Its a gamble, i am not prepared to take.

I believe we will continue to build under Bruce and i think he is well aware of our short comings.

you only have to look at the goals for and against....from last year to this to see the transformation of reliance on defence to attack.....he has morphed that.....there is much more to come, but you need the players to do it....he knows that.

We need to build on what we have achieved not pull it asunder.

I appreciate all that and I'm not anti Bruce and badly want him gone.  I would just prefer a change. 

Where are the better players going to come from? You think there's a chance of having a better squad than we have now next season? 

[sheepyvillian]

22 hours ago, terrytini said:

I was certainly part of that minority and within the 9 or 10 guys in and around me who chat there was only one other “anti”......neither of us are anywhere near “ anti” now and the others remain “pro”

......I don’t like to generalise but I just don’t see or hear much negative about keeping him at all...

...personally I think he’s done a good job, in my view we play some decent stuff, I don’t think he’s negative these days, I’ve enjoyed seeing us Win a lot, score a lot ( I think he’s done a great job lifting our goals tally up towards the mid 70’s, especially  having had no Kodja...I love the team spirit and the work ethic. 

Id give him a ‘B’ ( which some will find ridiculous I’m sure  ) rising to A- if we go up....and either way I’d be disappointed if they sack him.

A good job ? We haven't been promoted yet. 

[TRO]

56 minutes ago, thejoker said:

Of course we should expect promotion with the biggest wage bill. If we didn’t expect promotion then we wouldn’t be paying the big wages. 

It’s not really a complicated decision in my opinion. No promotion = failure.

So why is Rodwell on Massive wages at Sunderland?

Wages are just a result of a market force, paying for something you think you are going to get....It does not always work out in theory as it does in practice.

you just raise the odds of it working......that is all.

With all the factors involved, like 24 others teams trying to do the same, i don't think any team should EXPECT promotion under any circumstances.

You expect to challenge or do well, but there are far too many factors to conspire against any team to expect promotion.

Wolves, were not even favourites, such was the uncertainty of it all.

Edited April 29, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I appreciate all that and I'm not anti Bruce and badly want him gone.  I would just prefer a change. 

Where are the better players going to come from? You think there's a chance of having a better squad than we have now next season? 

"Better" is very subjective.

I think given we have introduced some solidarity at BMH and character has come back in to our game.....i think he will gradually lower the average age of the side.I think this is in his thinking....He went for experience this season based on the lack of characterin the team he took on.....I think he will gradually change that, without disrupting, what he put in place.

Many of our younger players, will have been influenced dramatically by the presence and discipline of our experienced players......that I am sure.

I think we will be less reliant on experience and more on athleticism, i think we will see change with Bruce.

I don't think we need a new manager to see a morphed change.

remember....Evolution not Revolution.

I do not buy in to this set in tablets of stone theory for his thinking......I think he deals for the moment and develops his thinking with time as the players develop.

He is fully aware of not expecting players to do what they can't do.

[TRO]

47 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

A good job ? We haven't been promoted yet. 

• Good job the people at Man City never thought that.....else Pepe would not be in the job.
• I guess Mourinho has failed too with all his resources.
• What a team Spurs have and a very good manager to boot, without a realistic chance, if we are honest.

Sheepy.....lets get real.

Edited April 29, 2018 by TRO

[Dave J]

7 hours ago, Johnnyp said:

He will ultimately be judged on the next 2-3 weeks of football. Lose badly to boro and he will probably be sacked.

To be honest with you - I say lose unluckily to Boro and he should go - I don't feel their are many Villa fans who don't think his remit is anything other than promotion this year and therefore he will have failed if this is not achieved regardless of the performance in the play off 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

• Good job the people at Man City never thought that.....else Pepe would not be in the job.
• I guess Mourinho has failed too with all his resources.
• What a team Spurs have and a very good manager to boot, without a realistic chance, if we are honest.

Sheepy.....lets get real.

Bit confused by your comparisons Tro. City just won the league. Man U fans see the season as a failure. 

Not sure the point on Spurs. 

If we don't go up this season Bruce can't be deemed to have done a good job. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Dave J said:

To be honest with you - I say lose unluckily to Boro and he should go - I don't feel their are many Villa fans who don't think his remit is anything other than promotion this year and therefore he will have failed if this is not achieved regardless of the performance in the play off 

 

I must be one of the minority then.

I am rather hoping we do, but not expecting anything.

despite a good season and accumulating 83 points to date, our inconsistencies tell me not to expect anything.....just fingers crossed we can find the form, grit and determination to get us over the line.

I don't think we have dominated games consistently enough to be in the EXPECTING zone.

but if you are suggesting dismissing all the good that has been acheived, for not achieving promotion.....i think that is a bit insular.

not for me.

[sheepyvillian]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

• Good job the people at Man City never thought that.....else Pepe would not be in the job.
• I guess Mourinho has failed too with all his resources.
• What a team Spurs have and a very good manager to boot, without a realistic chance, if we are honest.

Sheepy.....lets get real.

Pepe admitted he found his first season in the premier difficult, but soon adjusted to the job at hand. 

There are many Man Utd fans dismayed with Mourinhos football. Still Champions league can be considered a good job.

Same goes with Spurs. Champions league football yet again.

We've got arguably the one of the most talented teams in the Championship, with some of the best resources, and yet have been beaten to  automatic promotion by Cardiff.

If we don't get promoted, then IMO, Bruce has failed and that's being real.

[sheepyvillian]

11 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Bit confused by your comparisons Tro. City just won the league. Man U fans see the season as a failure. 

Not sure the point on Spurs. 

If we don't go up this season Bruce can't be deemed to have done a good job. 

So was I, tbh.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Bit confused by your comparisons Tro. City just won the league. Man U fans see the season as a failure. 

Not sure the point on Spurs. 

If we don't go up this season Bruce can't be deemed to have done a good job. 

I 'm talking 2016/2017.....He failed, according to your thinking....but he got it this season....because they stuck with him.

Spurs finished second, should he now go fir finishing possibly 4th.

If man u fans see 2nd as failure, my heart bleeds for them.

this sacking culture is ridiculous.

[flashingqwerty]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

But arguably.......our 4 best players, could most likely be still with us

 

• Kodjia
• Terry
• Grealisj
• Chester

A good start.....some or the youngsters will be 12 months further developed.

Its not all doom and Gloom.....i don't think They will allow that.

if we are a championship side next season 3 of those 4 will not be villa players when the window closes. we simply cannot afford to keepthem and i know at least 1 of them wants to be playing in the prem whatever the cost next season.

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Remember....Evolution not Revolution.

With the amount of change we can expect at the end of this season, I don't think evolution is an option. We're in for revolution whether we're up or down. About half of our first team squad won't be here in August.

 

[Dave J]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

I must be one of the minority then.

I am rather hoping we do, but not expecting anything.

despite a good season and accumulating 83 points to date, our inconsistencies tell me not to expect anything.....just fingers crossed we can find the form, grit and determination to get us over the line.

I don't think we have dominated games consistently enough to be in the EXPECTING zone.

but if you are suggesting dismissing all the good that has been acheived, for not achieving promotion.....i think that is a bit insular.

not for me.

TRO - I am finding it hard to imagine that you don't feel his remit this year was promotion ? I'm not talking about how this season has panned out - moreover what Wyness would have said to Bruce before a ball was kicked - I also feel that regardless of what progress has been made - if promotion is not achieved his position is untenable in my view 

[TRO]

14 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Pepe admitted he found his first season in the premier difficult, but soon adjusted to the job at hand. 

There are many Man Utd fans dismayed with Mourinhos football. Still Champions league can be considered a good job.

Same goes with Spurs. Champions league football yet again.

We've got arguably the one of the most talented teams in the Championship, with some of the best resources, and yet have been beaten to  automatic promotion by Cardiff.

If we don't get promoted, then IMO, Bruce has failed and that's being real.

Surprised you found it confusing.

Oh so it was ok for Pepe to find his first season difficult.....but in some quarters Steve Bruce was expected to get us up in his first season......bit rich that.

"arguably" being the operative word.

I would say we have possibly the fourth best team in the championship and we have finished where we should.

Cardiff have won 27 games to date, any team doing that, deserves it.

Edited April 30, 2018 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

I 'm talking 2016/2017.....He failed, according to your thinking....but he got it this season....because they stuck with him.

Spurs finished second, should he now go fir finishing possibly 4th.

If man u fans see 2nd as failure, my heart bleeds for them.

this sacking culture is ridiculous.

Oh ok. All that aside it comes down to wheather you  feel you have seen enough to be convinced he is the right man for the job. You feel that you have. Myself and others feel that we haven't.  We have been unlucky with injuries but I don't think we've been unlucky in results. Our final place is a fair reflection of our season. 

[Dave J]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Surprised you found it confusing.

Oh so it was ok for Pepe to find his first season difficult.....but in some quarters Steve Bruce was expected to get us up in his first season......bit rich that.

"arguably" being the operative word.

I would say we have possibly the fourth best team in the championship and we have finished where we should.

Cardiff have won 26 games to date, any team doing that, deserves it.

Hold on one moment TRO - Pepe is new to English football - Bruce as I am continually reminded has 4 promotions on his CV ( not great after 20 years in the game ) so I don't think you can play that particular card - and yes I fully believe the club felt Bruce could at least make the play offs in his first season 

[Vive_La_Villa]