Steve Bruce

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Oh ok. All that aside it comes down to wheather you  feel you have seen enough to be convinced he is the right man for the job. You feel that you have. Myself and others feel that we haven't.  We have been unlucky with injuries but I don't think we've been unlucky in results. Our final place is a fair reflection of our season. 

I have seen enough to think that sacking him is not the prudent move.....Yes.

irrespective of our outcome this season.

[flashingqwerty]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

Surprised you found it confusing.

Oh so it was ok for Pepe to find his first season difficult.....but in some quarters Steve Bruce was expected to get us up in his first season......bit rich that.

"arguably" being the operative word.

I would say we have possibly the fourth best team in the championship and we have finished where we should.

Cardiff have won 26 games to date, any team doing that, deserves it.

you cant have your cake and eat it tro.

youre comparing peps first season with bruces despite bruce having beenat the club for most of the previous year.  Peps goal for that season wasnt 'win the league' it was 'challenge for the league' a goal he solidly achieved.

Bruces goal was promotion.  A goal he has not yet achieved and until he does achieve it then he has failed.

United spent obscene amounts of money for mourinho and his remit was to win the league so he has failed.

Spurs spent nowhere near as much as the 4 clubs around them and their goal was champions league qualification which it looks like they will achieve. if they dont then poch may well lose his job.

[sheepyvillian]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

Surprised you found it confusing.

Oh so it was ok for Pepe to find his first season difficult.....but in some quarters Steve Bruce was expected to get us up in his first season......bit rich that.

"arguably" being the operative word.

I would say we have possibly the fourth best team in the championship and we have finished where we should.

Cardiff have won 26 games to date, any team doing that, deserves it.

Hpw many seasons has Bruce managed in the Championship ? 

Yet Pepe wins the title by the proverbial country mile in his second season 

And your seriously stating that we only had the fourth best squad in the Championship ? 

The confusion has increased.

 

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

With the amount of change we can expect at the end of this season, I don't think evolution is an option. We're in for revolution whether we're up or down. About half of our first team squad won't be here in August.

 

Thats possibly true......I was talking more about the culture and mood of the club and the character building that has been introduced.....the discipline and respect that has returned.

How do we know that will remain with a new guy......thats what i mean by evolution.

I still to this day, don't think many fans really know what we had at one stage.....we was a ship with a hole in the side.

[sheepyvillian]

6 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

you cant have your cake and eat it tro.

youre comparing peps first season with bruces despite bruce having beenat the club for most of the previous year.  Peps goal for that season wasnt 'win the league' it was 'challenge for the league' a goal he solidly achieved.

Bruces goal was promotion.  A goal he has not yet achieved and until he does achieve it then he has failed.

United spent obscene amounts of money for mourinho and his remit was to win the league so he has failed.

Spurs spent nowhere near as much as the 4 clubs around them and their goal was champions league qualification which it looks like they will achieve. if they dont then poch may well lose his job.

Exactly, what a load of twaddle

 

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

you cant have your cake and eat it tro.

youre comparing peps first season with bruces despite bruce having beenat the club for most of the previous year.  Peps goal for that season wasnt 'win the league' it was 'challenge for the league' a goal he solidly achieved.

Bruces goal was promotion.  A goal he has not yet achieved and until he does achieve it then he has failed.

United spent obscene amounts of money for mourinho and his remit was to win the league so he has failed.

Spurs spent nowhere near as much as the 4 clubs around them and their goal was champions league qualification which it looks like they will achieve. if they dont then poch may well lose his job.

I don't understand your second paragraph.

Steve Bruce took over a broken football club in October 2016......we was in 22nd place with 1 win in 11 games.....we finished 13th., despite losing our star striker for a month.

We then embarked on this season 2017/2018.

 

pepe started 2016/2017 and had a full season inc a pre season

Bruce started Oct 2016 with part season.

The point was not comparing managers but the fact that sticking with managers brings results in the main.

whats this previous season bit?

Edited April 29, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Exactly, what a load of twaddle

 

You said it....couldn't have put it better myself

[TRO]

13 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Hpw many seasons has Bruce managed in the Championship ? 

Yet Pepe wins the title by the proverbial country mile in his second season 

And your seriously stating that we only had the fourth best squad in the Championship ? 

The confusion has increased.

 

• So what?
• well there's a shock with him and  his players.
• possibly yes.....i can name many teams with a stronger centre mid, many teams with stronger full backs......yeah overall, possibly fourth.
• you're dead right on your last bit.

Edited April 30, 2018 by TRO

[briny_ear]

18 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

you cant have your cake and eat it tro.

youre comparing peps first season with bruces despite bruce having beenat the club for most of the previous year.  Peps goal for that season wasnt 'win the league' it was 'challenge for the league' a goal he solidly achieved.

Bruces goal was promotion.  A goal he has not yet achieved and until he does achieve it then he has failed.

United spent obscene amounts of money for mourinho and his remit was to win the league so he has failed.

Spurs spent nowhere near as much as the 4 clubs around them and their goal was champions league qualification which it looks like they will achieve. if they dont then poch may well lose his job.

That’s an odd thing to say. 

A bit like saying that someone running the marathon has failed because they are only at the 25 mile point.

The season isn’t over yet and we are in the playoffs. So in what sense has he “failed”?

Maybe put this on hold until the end of May? 

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

you cant have your cake and eat it tro.

youre comparing peps first season with bruces despite bruce having beenat the club for most of the previous year.  Peps goal for that season wasnt 'win the league' it was 'challenge for the league' a goal he solidly achieved.

Bruces goal was promotion.  A goal he has not yet achieved and until he does achieve it then he has failed.

United spent obscene amounts of money for mourinho and his remit was to win the league so he has failed.

Spurs spent nowhere near as much as the 4 clubs around them and their goal was champions league qualification which it looks like they will achieve. if they dont then poch may well lose his job.

What cake?

[Vive_La_Villa]

Lads its Pep. Short for Josep. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa

[terrytini]

5 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I agree. I don't think he/we were helped by being without Grealish for half a season and Kodjia for 90% of it. I think both of them fit for even 3/4 of the season and we'd have been up already. For any manager to be successful and get the best from his squad though he needs his best players fit and Bruce is no different. You could also say we have been helped by Grabban since he came in.

Bottom line is I guess the manager put the squad together and when he can put out our best side we are more than a match for every other club. That is why as we go into the play offs, with hopefully pretty much a fully fit squad, I am supremely confident.

Where I differ slightly is whilst Jack clearly made a huge impact I think it was Bruce’s own ( and self ‘confessed’) change of approach that made the difference, which, for me, began after the dire 0-0 against 10 man Middlesbrough...it stuttered, it was patchy, but it was a clear and distinct change towards trying to be more positive, more aggressively ‘frontfoot’ and focusing less on defence. I think results bear that out, but even more so the goals scored.

Hence I don’t think the loss of any particular individual would affect that ( although he allowed the loss of two to affect that approach Away at Fulham).

Having said that I don’t subscribe to the view that we lose a load of players next term if we haven’t gone up.....I suspect the best 15 will all still be here....I know why some think not but I don’t share the concern.

[flashingqwerty]

just wanted to look at the squad and whats likely to happen to it if we dont go up

Golini - GONE

Johnstone - GONE

Bunn - GONE

Steet

Sarkic

De Laet

Taylor

Samba - GONE

Chester - GONE

Bree

Richards

Hutton - GONE

Amavi - GONE

Elphick - GONE

Terry - GONE

Elmohamedy

Tuanzebe - GONE

Gil - GONE

DoyleHayes

Whelan

Snodgrass - GONE

Lansbury - GONE

Grealish - GONE

Hourihane

Jedinak

Onomah - GONE

Green

Thor

Gardner - GONE

oHare

Adomah - GONE

Lyden

Hogan

Agbonlahor - GONE

Mccormack - GONE

Kodjia - GONE?

Davis

HepburnMurphy

thats 19 out of 38 players with squad numbers.  Its going to be a massive job next season to compete after losing half the squad and with a smaller budget and less resources.  Whoever is in charge i dont think can be realistically be set promotion as a target.

We need to take a look at the youth team and lower/foreign leagues to sign young promising players and have a manager capable of working with a large young squad and build them up for the future.

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

A good job ? We haven't been promoted yet. 

Yup.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to consider him having done a good job whether we are promoted or not.

As a few examples......in my own personal view of course .......

I see a huge, huge, progression overall from a year ago. That’s a good job.

I see a far far better spirit and character in the side, that’s a good job.

I see a far better balance in the squad, that’s a good job.

I see a much improved Points and Goals tally and a good fight made for Promotion, and that’s a good job.

I see as fans we now are expecting to Win rather than expecting to lose, that’s a good job.

I enjoy going to Away games for the first time in nearly 10 years, that’s a good job.

Most of all, I enjoy watching us - much of the time - and that’s a good job.

[flashingqwerty]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't understand your second paragraph.

Steve Bruce took over a broken football club in October 2016......we was in 22nd place with 1 win in 11 games.....we finished 13th., despite losing our star striker for a month.

We then embarked on this season 2017/2018.

 

pepe started 2016/2017 and had a full season inc a pre season

Bruce started Oct 2016 with part season.

The point was not comparing managers but the fact that sticking with managers brings results in the main.

whats this previous season bit?

you intimated people expected Bruce to win promotion in his first season. As i dont know a single person who thought that would happen when he started in october i took your meaning of 1st season to mean his first full season.

but in their case you compare pep moving to a new country with what 8 years management experience and finishing where he was asked to in a champions league place to Steve Bruce a man with over 3 decades of experience in english football who not only failed to meet the publicised board expectation but also his own public expectation and you really think thats the same thing?!?!?!?  

[terrytini]

@flashingqwertyI’ve seen a couple of these - I don’t think it’s the case that Johnstone, Chester, Terry, Grealish, Snodgrass, Adomah will be gone......what’s certain is neither of us know what will happen either way.

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

So why is Rodwell on Massive wages at Sunderland?

Wages are just a result of a market force, paying for something you think you are going to get....It does not always work out in theory as it does in practice.

you just raise the odds of it working......that is all.

With all the factors involved, like 24 others teams trying to do the same, i don't think any team should EXPECT promotion under any circumstances.

You expect to challenge or do well, but there are far too many factors to conspire against any team to expect promotion.

Wolves, were not even favourites, such was the uncertainty of it all.

Well said, and equally so obvious it’s perplexing that it needed saying !

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Lads its Pep. Short for Josep. 

No......short for pepperami, because he beefs things up.

Its his famous " Pep" talks.

Edited April 29, 2018 by TRO

[flashingqwerty]

2 minutes ago, terrytini said:

@flashingqwertyI’ve seen a couple of these - I don’t think it’s the case that Johnstone, Chester, Terry, Grealish, Snodgrass, Adomah will be gone......what’s certain is neither of us know what will happen either way.

i can assure you the themajority of them will be if we failto secure promotion as the funds are not in place to pay them next season if we dont.  the club literally cannot keep them financially unless we go up.

[terrytini]

41 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Exactly, what a load of twaddle

 

There we go....debate reduced to sneering again. Shame.