Steve Bruce

[TRO]

4 hours ago, terrytini said:

Good to read a thoughtful balanced Post on the subject !

I agree with you.

I too think we’ve under achieved, and I do think it’s possible to make that assessment. And I suspect Tony would indeed agree. Maybe even Bruce would.

I think our results since Game 8 have equalled what I’d expect, but they needed to be even better as the first 7 games were well under Par.

And I think that we’ve under achieved even if we go up through the Play Offs. I think we “ should” ( if there can ever be such a thing ) have come Second.......although in addition to any underachievement on our part we have to factor in over achievement by other Clubs too.

As you say, the debate to be had is whether the degree to which we’ve under achieved, and the overall Pros and Cons of changing the Manager, shoukd lead to a change.

I personally see no argument at all - and I’ve seen the arguments - that even comes remotely close to me thinking he should go.

I agree with all that.....The bit that I struggle with Terry is this.( not your comments, the conception of the start)

The first 7 games indeed were the fly in the ointment of the whole season I agree.....However,If we all accept the mammoth turn around in so many factors from the previous season how do we know the work that they were all doing was ready for the new season, is it not feasible, we wasn't quite ready and the rectification kicked in later than we wanted?

I guess the same could be said about Fulham.....Had they started like they wanted, it could have been so different, for them too.

The problem with work of this nature, WE don't always know how long it takes.

I am not as comfortable as some, with the under/over achieving debate.

Edited May 1, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

5 hours ago, carewjust4u said:

Of course the game isn't played on paper, but there certainly has to be a benchmark of expectation from somewhere...how else can you set expectations? You mention Leicester, I think the entire world would agree that they over-performed with that squad. If you can over-achieve on paper then you can under-achieve.

There have been individual errors this season, as all teams/squads experience..but is that the reason we have lost so many points, especially against sides lower down the division? You mention consistency, but surely that is a process that must be managed, I refuse to believe that consistency is achieved on the luck of individual errors. 

You mention some of the best players in the division would get into our side, and of course they would. But we are talking about a squad of 24 players no? I would say that as a squad of quality and depth on paper is in the top 2 of the division, and therefore has performed under it's capabilities this season. 

Now there is a debate to be had in-terms of if changing manager would achieve the consistency performance-wise we need, but it is indisputable imo that we have underachieved..and I am sure Xia most likely agrees on this to some extent.

 

let me ask you a question, (albeit hypothetical)because its fairly easy to come on here and say that you think we have under achieved ( and I respect your opinion by the way)

But.....

If it was setup that you could visit Bodymoor Heath and address the manager and the first team squad with that claim...... that you think that the squad has under achieved this season.

 would you feel comfortable doing that?

[Tomaszk]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

If it was setup that you could visit Bodymoor Heath and address the manager and the first team squad with that claim...... that you think that the squad has under achieved this season.

 would you feel comfortable doing that?

  Steve Bruce wouldn't. He'd moan that carewjust4u was hysterical no matter how just the criticism.

[TRO]

21 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

you're doing it again though proclaiming your not comparing things on going on to compare them.

ultimately 1 manager achieved what was asked of him when he arrived and the other did not.  Managers who do not meet expectations regardless of resources lose their jobs and rightly so.

they are hired to achieve X result, if they fail, they lose their jobs - thats just how it works.

Ans should we fail to gain promotion i expect a new manager next season

I don't......but accept it could happen.

[flashingqwerty]

9 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

It's speculation as it hasn't happened yet.

You are predicting the future, unless you have magical powers that is therefore speculation.

thats like saying tomorrow is speculation because it has happened yet.

Its a fact that our incoming revenue will be drastically reduced next season.  Dont believe me? There are literally dozens of credable quotes, interviews and articles detailing in some depth.

I speak regularly to people at the club who look at club turnover, and not getting promoted would mean SEVERE cutbacks across the club not least with regards players and wage budgets.

Anyone who thinks we can keep this squad in tact for another season in the championship is kidding themselves as the club simply cannot afford to do it.

[TRO]

24 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

  Steve Bruce wouldn't. He'd moan that carewjust4u was hysterical no matter how just the criticism.

I wasn't talking about SB's comfort

[TRO]

1 minute ago, flashingqwerty said:

thats like saying tomorrow is speculation because it has happened yet.

Its a fact that our incoming revenue will be drastically reduced next season.  Dont believe me? There are literally dozens of credable quotes, interviews and articles detailing in some depth.

I speak regularly to people at the club who look at club turnover, and not getting promoted would mean SEVERE cutbacks across the club not least with regards players and wage budgets.

Anyone who thinks we can keep this squad in tact for another season in the championship is kidding themselves as the club simply cannot afford to do it.

interestingly......do they think SB should go?

[flashingqwerty]

Just now, TRO said:

interestingly......do they think SB should go?

they believe his future rests on the playoffs much like the rest of us.

i'm sure you can appreciate i cannot name names but one senior member has stated he believes SB will walk if we fail to go up.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, flashingqwerty said:

they believe his future rests on the playoffs much like the rest of us.

i'm sure you can appreciate i cannot name names but one senior member has stated he believes SB will walk if we fail to go up.

yeah I get that.

OK

[Junxs]

3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I respectfully disagree, in this instance particularly.

 

Unless you believe Junxs has information no-one else seems to have?

Bloody hell. What a load of nonsense.

I replied to a comment that said "IF" we dont go up then the budget will massively decrease for next season.

Your response has been very childish and quite frankly an attack on me. 

There are only 2 scenarios here, either we go up or we dont. To comment on what would happen if one of the outcomes come true is not speculation, it just dumb to call it that and then follow it up by saying i have a way of looking into the future when my whole point was based on an "IF"

Are you telling me you have never thought about the outcomes of 2 scenarios on a daily basis, and think about and make plans for the potentially more negative outcome? 

You might be driving home from work and come across a road block and have to either turn left or turn right to get home, you know turning left you drive past a school and will face more school traffic.. oh hang on thats speculation and you must have a Crystal ball even though you know its 3.30 and the traffic will be mental. You see how stupid that sounds?

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

We had 16 non wins during arguably the finest season in our history.....certainly since the war.

come on VLV you can do better than that.

As I tried to explain in subsequent posts it's not just the fact that we failed to win in 21 games. It's the fact that we didn't even look like winning in the majority of them. Where are these extra points going to come from next season? 

 

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think you will see a change, even if he stays.

What do you think will change?

[Vive_La_Villa]

35 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

they believe his future rests on the playoffs much like the rest of us.

i'm sure you can appreciate i cannot name names but one senior member has stated he believes SB will walk if we fail to go up.

Well if he couldn't get this squad promoted and he knows he will most likely have an even weaker squad next year due to the clubs finances and FFP. It's probably understandable that he would walk. 

[villakram]

Walk... he should be so lucky.

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, flashingqwerty said:

One senior member has stated he believes SB will walk if we fail to go up.

Interesting.

I think that's very unlikely.

It'd be for the best and save us both time and face.

[pacbuddies]

2 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

they believe his future rests on the playoffs much like the rest of us.

i'm sure you can appreciate i cannot name names but one senior member has stated he believes SB will walk if we fail to go up.

And so he should.

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

thats like saying tomorrow is speculation because it has happened yet.

Its a fact that our incoming revenue will be drastically reduced next season.  Dont believe me? There are literally dozens of credable quotes, interviews and articles detailing in some depth.

I speak regularly to people at the club who look at club turnover, and not getting promoted would mean SEVERE cutbacks across the club not least with regards players and wage budgets.

Anyone who thinks we can keep this squad in tact for another season in the championship is kidding themselves as the club simply cannot afford to do it.

Yep, agreed.

Doesn't necessarily the quality in the first XI has to change drastically, getting Gabby off the books alone frees up significant space.

No one is denying that non-promotion won't be a major financial problem for us, but to assume that it will result in being a disaster for us on and off the field is speculation.

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, Junxs said:

Bloody hell. What a load of nonsense.

I replied to a comment that said "IF" we dont go up then the budget will massively decrease for next season.

Your response has been very childish and quite frankly an attack on me. 

There are only 2 scenarios here, either we go up or we dont. To comment on what would happen if one of the outcomes come true is not speculation, it just dumb to call it that and then follow it up by saying i have a way of looking into the future when my whole point was based on an "IF"

Are you telling me you have never thought about the outcomes of 2 scenarios on a daily basis, and think about and make plans for the potentially more negative outcome? 

You might be driving home from work and come across a road block and have to either turn left or turn right to get home, you know turning left you drive past a school and will face more school traffic.. oh hang on thats speculation and you must have a Crystal ball even though you know its 3.30 and the traffic will be mental. You see how stupid that sounds?

 

Here's what you said:

"Especially when the squad wont be half as good and the budget considerably less than last season"

 

To which I replied to say that's speculation. To assume the squad "won't be half as good", is speculation.

 

To claim it's not speculation......well, you see how stupid that sounds?

[osmark86]

the ifs just divide the outcomes of the scenarios. the conditions of those outcomes is where there's speculation. and yes, it is speculation unless backed by assured facts. fact.

Edited May 1, 2018 by osmark86

[Junxs]

51 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Here's what you said:

"Especially when the squad wont be half as good and the budget considerably less than last season"

 

To which I replied to say that's speculation. To assume the squad "won't be half as good", is speculation.

 

To claim it's not speculation......well, you see how stupid that sounds?

Well actually you just said thats speculation without referring to what part of my comment is speculation.

If you actually cared to ask i was talking about prior to rebuilding hence i mentioned the budget, the stage at which all the loan players go back (all 5 of them) and we are left with much less money and half the squad. But no you just wanted to jump on the being able to see the future nonsense and "speculation"

[Junxs]

6 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

the ifs just divide the outcomes of the scenarios. the conditions of those outcomes is where there's speculation. and yes, it is speculation unless backed by assured facts. fact.

Exactly, its not speculation if you know the left turn in my scenario will lead to more traffic (if we dont get promoted the budget will be less)

So thats not speculation, its fact. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Junxs