Steve Bruce

[TRO]

11 hours ago, DCJonah said:

And yet Bruce felt the need to have a dig at the fans. I don't think he helped himself if it was just a tiny online minority.

True.......but it depends if folk understand that or take a broad view.

i took it as he was targetting a small minority.

on many ocassions he has lauded our fans.

[Vive_La_Villa]

46 minutes ago, handsworthvilla said:

Very true. I have to say that what I read on VT (and FB etc) is pretty unrepresentative of what I hear from other Villa fans in person. I find the fact that there is a 'next manager speculation' thread on here completely baffling. I remember reading the vitriol being poured over him after the Brentford game at Christmas on here in particular. When I look at what has happened to Sunderland this season it makes me appreciate Bruce's stabilising effects even more. We were arguably more messed up than Sunderland when we were relegated, and the fact we haven't completely fallen apart like them is partly the responsibility of Bruce. 

Looking at our many of our key players this season (Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass) they are only here because of Bruce's ability to use his network and work the loan system. I don't think he gets enough praise for how he has worked the free agent / loan market this season to our advantage. 

He does deserve credit for the players he has managed to bring in. To be honest I think he has always been decent in the transfer market. 

The problem I have is the inconsistency of the team. We never know which Villa is going to turn up and a lot of the time we have to rely on individual brilliance to leave with a result.

 

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I liked how we played yesterday. Aggressive and on the front foot. First to second balls. Moved the ball quickly, always looked like scoring etc. Now I appreciate for whatever reason, injuries, form, opponents, we can play like that every week. I wouldn't expect us to. 

The problem for me is we do not play like that anywhere near enough. That is the reason I'd want a change of manager if we don't go up. 

But we didn't start like that, we grew in to it particulary when Hutton came on.

we was vulnerable to the counter, early doors.....and the left side was weak.

I still think much of our play is predictable......i still think we need strengthing.

not sure how we dropped 4 points against them.

we was unlucky though.

Edited April 29, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He does deserve credit for the players he has managed to bring in. To be honest I think he has always been decent in the transfer market. 

The problem I have is the inconsistency of the team. We never know which Villa is going to turn up and a lot of the time we have to rely on individual brilliance to leave with a result.

 

Most teams do rely on individual brilliance.

Mo Salah e.g

[NurembergVillan]

59 minutes ago, Dave J said:

For me I'm afraid he will have to go if promotion is not achieved - sure he has taken the club forward but the amount of goals scored, work ethic and so forth we're not his remit - promotion was/is imo and therefore he would be some way off mission accomplished, also what would be a concern for me would be that he would have failed twice with the resource available to Roberto Di Matteo, if he can't get this squad promoted - can we realistically expect him to do so next season with a weakened  squad ?  Which begs the question would we need a manager who is happy to work with younger less experienced performers?

I've fixed that for you

I've said it loads of times in here, but it's such a misnomer that he's got these incredible resources.

Roberto Di Matteo had far more to spend, wasted nearly all of it, and those signings are now either on the periphery of the squad, out on loan, or sat behind a locked gate.

I think we've got a squad good enough to be top 2, but I also think if we'd had Bruce from the start of last season with the full transfer kitty instead of Di Matteo we'd have a better squad and would definitely be promoted by now.

[Vive_La_Villa]

10 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

I've fixed that for you

I've said it loads of times in here, but it's such a misnomer that he's got these incredible resources.

Roberto Di Matteo had far more to spend, wasted nearly all of it, and those signings are now either on the periphery of the squad, out on loan, or sat behind a locked gate.

I think we've got a squad good enough to be top 2, but I also think if we'd had Bruce from the start of last season with the full transfer kitty instead of Di Matteo we'd have a better squad and would definitely be promoted by now.

I agree we'd most likely have a better squad but then we may not have had a defender as good as Chester and a 21 goal striker that prevented a relegation battle. 

Bruce didn't have the transfer fees that RDM had but he still had the wages. Not many in the league could afford to pay Terry, Snodgrass and probably even Whelan and Elmo. 

Having said all that I would have liked to have seen what squad Bruce would have managed to assemble with 60 million odd to spend.  We'll probably never see that happen. 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

35 minutes ago, TRO said:

Most teams do rely on individual brilliance.

Mo Salah e.g

True but then there's individual brilliance complimenting the rest of the team and there's individual brilliance bailing out poor performances. 

Maybe im being overly critical but at many times this season it feels like it's been the latter. 

[NurembergVillan]

4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I agree we'd most likely have a better squad but then we may not have had a defender as good as Chester and a 21 goal striker that prevented a relegation battle. 

Bruce didn't have the transfer fees that RDM had but he still had the wages. Not many in the league could afford to pay Terry, Snodgrass and probably even Whelan and Elmo. 

Having said all that I would have liked to have seen what squad Bruce would have managed to assemble with 60 million odd to spend.  We'll probably never see that happen. 

Chester played under Bruce at Hull, and played well too.  Hard to say whether he'd have signed Kodjia.

I'm confident he wouldn't have spent £10m on Gollini and Tshibola.

I don't know whether Whelan and Elmo will be on massive wages, but I'd expect the other two are.

[Vive_La_Villa]

28 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

I'm confident he wouldn't have spent £10m on Gollini and Tshibola.

That I can agree with it. But to be fair to RDM, Bruce did blow 15m on Hogan and Bree 

Tshbola was such a disappointment. Gollini was just a ridiculous gamble. 

[terrytini]

35 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

True but then there's individual brilliance complimenting the rest of the team and there's individual brilliance bailing out poor performances. 

Maybe im being overly critical but at many times this season it feels like it's been the latter. 

I understand the view but would differ in that I don’t think you win 24 games and score over 70 goals without decent performances..... I think fans always look at their own Clubs performances critically

 just one example - I posted recently from a Fulham’s Fan Forum during a game in which Villa fans were saying how well Fulham were playing whilst the Fulham fans had the same criticisms of their team as we do of ours..... I think it’s common to all.

Likewise the guy earlier who said he wants to see that kind of football all the time ....I just don’t think it works like that...yet the fact that we do play it is surely an indication it’s what the Manager wants.

The huge, huge, difference for me is that for months now we ( usually) look like that’s how we want to play, whereas in his first year there’s no doubt he kept the brakes on.

In my view if he stays we will see much more of that next season if in this League.

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

True.......but it depends if folk understand that or take a broad view.

i took it as he was targetting a small minority.

on many ocassions he has lauded our fans.

It was aimed at a minority. But if the minority was just really a few on the internet did it warrant a response at all? 

I think its the only slight blemish in his interaction with the fans, apart from that he has done well in getting everyone on the same page  

[OutByEaster?]

Bruce's weakness in the transfer market is age. He's signed good players to play for us this season; but in some ways, he's signed bad players to still be here next season if we don't go up.

It's been a risk by the club to sign experienced players with character to try and get us up this season - but if we don't, the likes of Jedinak and Whelan will be dead wood next term and with Johnstone, Samba, Snodgrass, Agbonlahor, Onomah, Hutton, Terry, Tuanzebe, Bunn and Grabban all likely to leave, we don't have a squad that has an eye on the future. 

Add in Elmohamady, Bjarnason, Taylor, Chester and Adomah who will all be the wrong side of thirty halfway through next season and you can see that there will be a massive rebuilding job on - whether we go up and need to start replacing people or whether we don't.

We're all in on this season. It's why I think Bruce will probably hang up his Villa hat in the summer if we don't go up, we'll need a whole new team, a whole new plan and a whole new direction and I just feel that Bruce (and the club) will feel that a change of manager will help facilitate that.

It's also why I feel that the club will actively look to sell Grealish in the summer if we don't go up, whether he wants to stay or not, the money it's going to take to bring in the players we need can't really be generated any other way.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

I understand the view but would differ in that I don’t think you win 24 games and score over 70 goals without decent performances..... I think fans always look at their own Clubs performances critically

 just one example - I posted recently from a Fulham’s Fan Forum during a game in which Villa fans were saying how well Fulham were playing whilst the Fulham fans had the same criticisms of their team as we do of ours..... I think it’s common to all.

Likewise the guy earlier who said he wants to see that kind of football all the time ....I just don’t think it works like that...yet the fact that we do play it is surely an indication it’s what the Manager wants.

The huge, huge, difference for me is that for months now we ( usually) look like that’s how we want to play, whereas in his first year there’s no doubt he kept the brakes on.

In my view if he stays we will see much more of that next season if in this League.

That is a good point. However when all is said and done we've ultimately fallen short. 

So if we have another year in this league it boils down to whether fans think we can improve on this season. I personally do not think we can because whenever we've looked like we've turned a corner and put a good run of games together it seems to followed by a run of games from a team I can hardly recognise. 

I can however understand why fans would want to see him given a final crack at it.  

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It was aimed at a minority. But if the minority was just really a few on the internet did it warrant a response at all? 

I think its the only slight blemish in his interaction with the fans, apart from that he has done well in getting everyone on the same page  

For me it wasn't the fact he had a dig at the fans it was more that he felt criticism at the time wasn't warranted. That's what I found a little odd. 

[DCJonah]

My opinion continues to change. I'm currently more on the side of sticking with him even if we fail in the playoffs. 

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

That is a good point. However when all is said and done we've ultimately fallen short. 

Two things on this - I'd disagree slightly on whether we've fallen short and disagree entirely that all has been said and done - win our next four and we've done brilliantly!

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just now, OutByEaster? said:

Two things on this - I'd disagree slightly on whether we've fallen short and disagree entirely that all has been said and done - win our next four and we've done brilliantly!

 

True but I was thinking more towards whether we should keep him on next season if still in the league so in that respect all will be said and done. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Bruce's weakness in the transfer market is age. He's signed good players to play for us this season; but in some ways, he's signed bad players to still be here next season if we don't go up.

It's been a risk by the club to sign experienced players with character to try and get us up this season - but if we don't, the likes of Jedinak and Whelan will be dead wood next term and with Johnstone, Samba, Snodgrass, Agbonlahor, Onomah, Hutton, Terry, Tuanzebe, Bunn and Grabban all likely to leave, we don't have a squad that has an eye on the future. 

Add in Elmohamady, Bjarnason, Taylor, Chester and Adomah who will all be the wrong side of thirty halfway through next season and you can see that there will be a massive rebuilding job on - whether we go up and need to start replacing people or whether we don't.

We're all in on this season. It's why I think Bruce will probably hang up his Villa hat in the summer if we don't go up, we'll need a whole new team, a whole new plan and a whole new direction and I just feel that Bruce (and the club) will feel that a change of manager will help facilitate that.

It's also why I feel that the club will actively look to sell Grealish in the summer if we don't go up, whether he wants to stay or not, the money it's going to take to bring in the players we need can't really be generated any other way.

I agree with all of this. But it also hammers home that no promotion this year could mean a few more years in this league and the awful referees!!

[chips'ngravy]

Re: the age element of our signings, Bruce made an interesting point in the post-match interview vs Leeds. Basically saying that he felt it necessary to sign more experienced players to deal with the weight of expectancy that comes with playing for a club of Villa's stature and history at this level.

Given the downward trajectory of the club since 2011 and the gambles we took in trying out a moneyball style of transfer policy you can only come to the conclusion he made the right call. The fact that many of those players we signed under Lambert and Sherwood are now showing their worth in more stable environments where they're not all fresh from another league or culture only serves to emphasize that point.

At the end of the day we'll have missed out on automatic promotion by a couple of wins over 46 games, hardly a disaster. That said his remit was to get promotion and it'll be interesting to see what decision the club will make should we fail this year. Nevertheless, I feel more confident than in previous seasons that there is a plan in place for a number of scenarios with or without Bruce. 

My own feeling is that we'll do it....and for the record, I'm a born pessimist.

[Johnnyp]

He will ultimately be judged on the next 2-3 weeks of football. Lose badly to boro and he will probably be sacked.