Grasshopper Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Bruce Out Warburton In Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Bruce, tell the players its time to grow a pair, it needs them all to draw a line and be brave enough to risk failing in order to win and that includes Bruce, put a team out to win not to scrape a result UTV Edited February 10, 2017 by tinker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Needs a win tomorrow at home, or else it'll be like the old days of McLeish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Grasshopper said: Bruce Out Warburton In Grasshopper out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 00:16, Mjvilla said: Those calling for Bruce's head: who do you want as manager, realistic and someone who would turn us around? and, @Michael118 , if I read Marcelo **** bielsa once, you'll get blocked. He's not coming to a mid table championship team. I'll say Guus Hiddink then. We need somebody of that calibre if we have any hope of getting out of the mess we are in. Rowett, Smith, Wagner would almost certainly be no better than Bruce or RDM. My other suggestions would be the same names I brought up before Bruce was appointed - Quique Sanchez Flores, Francesco Guidolin, Sam Allardyce and possibly Michael Laudrup. Another name I'll add into the mix and someone who would be very obtainable is Paul Heckingbottom. I like him and would be surprised if he doesn't continue to improve and gets a team promoted at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Grasshopper said: Bruce Out Warburton In So very brief! Don't agree with the sentiment, but I truly enjoyed reading this post. Keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Does 5-3-2 say we are on the back foot, afraid of the opposition, that we are not offensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 "It is the first year under Jose's management and we are working very hard. He tells us what he wants to see. Of course, it is not very easy when you have a new manager. "You have to adapt to him and the team, the training sessions and the games. At the beginning we had a little bit of difficulties but then we started winning in November." Link Something Mkhitaryan said about Klopp/Mourinho which I think is worth thinking about when it comes to chopping and changing managers all the sodding time. If the fans turn against Bruce I really hope Tony ignores them. As long as we change manager every season, no matter who it is, we are going nowhere. It is such a STUPID thing to do. Any new manager should get at least a year. We never see their plan and their philosophy before then. Things cannot and never will change over night. It pains me that fans can't see this. It's so obviously ridiculous to hire someone then fire them before they've even had a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) 5-3-2 Completely depends how it's implemented, certainly doesn't have to be negative. I remember Sir Brian Of Little playing that way before it was a 'thing' and the way he did it we were very positive- admittedly only after we won away at West Ham following moving Tommy Johnson into an attacking role. Im not sure how hopeful I am that Bruce sees it as an attacking option, but it certainly can be. Edited February 11, 2017 by terrytini 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Spoony said: "It is the first year under Jose's management and we are working very hard. He tells us what he wants to see. Of course, it is not very easy when you have a new manager. "You have to adapt to him and the team, the training sessions and the games. At the beginning we had a little bit of difficulties but then we started winning in November." Link Something Mkhitaryan said about Klopp/Mourinho which I think is worth thinking about when it comes to chopping and changing managers all the sodding time. If the fans turn against Bruce I really hope Tony ignores them. As long as we change manager every season, no matter who it is, we are going nowhere. It is such a STUPID thing to do. Any new manager should get at least a year. We never see their plan and their philosophy before then. Things cannot and never will change over night. It pains me that fans can't see this. It's so obviously ridiculous to hire someone then fire them before they've even had a year. Really can't compare Klopp/Mourinho to the people we have hired over the last couple of years thou. Including Bruce. I agree with the principle that it takes time to implement changes but I don't support the idea that any manager, just given time will be a success. Sherwood?, Black?, Garde? McLeish, McDonald? each given a year? Time is no where near as important as actually hiring the right guys. In this case it's all about how much faith one has in Bruce. Would be ridiculous to give him next season as well is there are no signs at the end of this season. It's not like something magic happens the day a year has past. Now if he get's the team performing during the end of this season and we start to see clear signs of a strategy that will win us matches through a tactical idea I'd be content in giving him the summer and start of next season to do his thing. But if it's more of what's been shown so far I don't see the point of him remaining over the summer just so he can have his whole year come October. The time it takes to implement a new tactic and strategy hinges on so much more than just time. It's about how clear the strategy is, how good the manager is to explain it to the players, how good the coaches are to teach it on the field, how tactically skilled the players are to take on the tactic, how motivated they are, how suited they are to said tactic, and loads of other parameters, including time to implement it. It can take 2 months or it may never happen. It doesn't just happen magically after a year if the right circumstances are not there. Bruce has earned the right (at other clubs, not here) to be given to the summer to see if he can turn it around. Both regarding results but also style of play. Grinding out draws or 1-0 victories by sitting deep and not pressing while hoping to create something on a break will not get us promoted next season either. For me we have to see a total 180 for him to be my choice manager for next season. It can still happen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) Brilliant Post SNE it's hard to fathom why anyone would see it differently. Really says everything in a logical sensible way. Im 100% sure the owner would agree also.!!! Edited February 11, 2017 by terrytini 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, sne said: Really can't compare Klopp/Mourinho to the people we have hired over the last couple of years thou. Including Bruce. I agree with the principle that it takes time to implement changes but I don't support the idea that any manager, just given time will be a success. Sherwood?, Black?, Garde? McLeish, McDonald? each given a year? Time is no where near as important as actually hiring the right guys. In this case it's all about how much faith one has in Bruce. Would be ridiculous to give him next season as well is there are no signs at the end of this season. It's not like something magic happens the day a year has past. Now if he get's the team performing during the end of this season and we start to see clear signs of a strategy that will win us matches through a tactical idea I'd be content in giving him the summer and start of next season to do his thing. But if it's more of what's been shown so far I don't see the point of him remaining over the summer just so he can have his whole year come October. The time it takes to implement a new tactic and strategy hinges on so much more than just time. It's about how clear the strategy is, how good the manager is to explain it to the players, how good the coaches are to teach it on the field, how tactically skilled the players are to take on the tactic, how motivated they are, how suited they are to said tactic, and loads of other parameters, including time to implement it. It can take 2 months or it may never happen. It doesn't just happen magically after a year if the right circumstances are not there. Bruce has earned the right (at other clubs, not here) to be given to the summer to see if he can turn it around. Both regarding results but also style of play. Grinding out draws or 1-0 victories by sitting deep and not pressing while hoping to create something on a break will not get us promoted next season either. For me we have to see a total 180 for him to be my choice manager for next season. It can still happen. Top post. I could have "bolded" everything, but I've bolded the points I'd like to emphasise. Another point. Be careful what you wish for. Dr Tony Xia is the most important factor that has happened to us since the infamous club structure change in 1969 (Thats 48 years ago) Randy Lerner was a false dawn who eventually cost us our PL place, dignity and pride. Football is BIG finacial business, it involves sums of money that go way beyond the collective sums of the entire VT posters lifes earnings. Just think about that for a moment. DrT is our ticket/bank back to respectability and possible success. Is anyone here really serious about giving our (most likely) ONLY shot back at the big time to Steve Bruce? I was all for the appointment as I saw the logic in the decision to have a manager who could save the season/investment and get us promoted this season. But the ship has sailed. Failing to get up means it gets harder each year. Important and imperative questions have to be answered. 1) How long will DrT be prepared to finance AVFC without success (promotion next step) before he says "next"? DrT to sell up with us still in this league would be the single most important factor regarding the immediate & long term future of this club. 2) With DrT willingness to invest so much money, does one really want the oppertunity of managing such a big club with this much potential investment to be put in the hands of Steve Bruce at argueably the most pivitol point of our history since 1969? In October 2016 with 30+ games to go it was a chance worth taking. But as of now looking at this point in time as a marker to state: This team needs a management/coaching structure in place to implement a style and definition of play that will not only pave the way for a successful promotion campaign next season, but also a platform to build on in the PL with intent to capitalise on the investment DrT is prepared to make. The remaining games of this season are both pivitol and defining. Our "2017/18 pre-season starts now" As sne says Time is no where near as important as actually hiring the right guys. Vtid 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 7 hours ago, Michael118 said: I'll say Guus Hiddink then. We need somebody of that calibre if we have any hope of getting out of the mess we are in. Rowett, Smith, Wagner would almost certainly be no better than Bruce or RDM. My other suggestions would be the same names I brought up before Bruce was appointed - Quique Sanchez Flores, Francesco Guidolin, Sam Allardyce and possibly Michael Laudrup. Another name I'll add into the mix and someone who would be very obtainable is Paul Heckingbottom. I like him and would be surprised if he doesn't continue to improve and gets a team promoted at some point. Step 1) Suggests replacing manager Step 2) Is forbidden from naming ridiculous, impossible suggestion Marcelo Bielsa Step 3) Suggests ridiculous, impossible suggestion Guus Hiddink instead. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Hope Bruce turns it round but if he doesn't and we need a new Manager I see no reason at all why as fans we should know who that should be. As history shows - with the odd exceptional genius - being a success at a Club is mostly a matter of luck timing and fit. The list of guys who've been hopeless at some places and great at other times and places is endless. Our own Sir Ron being a case in point where yes he had minor success elsewhere but never came close to what he did with us. And more recently another hero of ours GT was great first time, second time not so much. Our messiah could easily be working in the lower Leagues of this or any other country. And it may not be the next guy we hire, or the one after. We will, when the time comes, just have to trust the hiring people that they strike lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Grasshopper said: Is anyone here really serious about giving our (most likely) ONLY shot back at the big time to Steve Bruce? I was all for the appointment as I saw the logic in the decision to have a manager who could save the season/investment and get us promoted this season. But the ship has sailed. Failing to get up means it gets harder each year. Important and imperative questions have to be answered. 1) How long will DrT be prepared to finance AVFC without success (promotion next step) before he says "next"? DrT to sell up with us still in this league would be the single most important factor regarding the immediate & long term future of this club. 2) With DrT willingness to invest so much money, does one really want the oppertunity of managing such a big club with this much potential investment to be put in the hands of Steve Bruce at argueably the most pivitol point of our history since 1969? Question 1: If he says "next" then so be it. He'd have failed at the running of the club and will need to find a new owner. As nobody can possibly even start to think about who that would be, it's not worth even worrying or thinking about. It could be someone worse or someone much, much better (and perhaps richer). On your bit in bold and to question 2) The owner clearly is and he clearly does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I think essentially, to sum up what sne has said above, very well laid out and argued if I may say so, is that the single most important thing in modern football is money. Whilst it can't guarantee success, lack of it almost certainly makes it extremely difficult. Even Leicester, remarkable though the achievement was last season, had a very supportive owner who had invested a reasonably decent amount. Lerner imvested plenty in the early years, but it was mismanaged by a combination of MON and a complete lack of management structure above him. Lerner eventually became bored and disolutioned and so the opportunity was lost. I blame him and MON in almost equal measures, but ultimately Lerner because he was the guy, supposedly, in charge. We must be wary of that happening again. Owners are like players, yes they kiss the badge and profess undying love, but ultimately the majority aren't like us. It's not in their hearts or their blood. They chose, they weren't chosen. The time is now, we mustn't squander it again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted February 11, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 11, 2017 I still think Bruce is a good manager, I don't think that a bad run starting when our best players were at AFCON and continuing when we've got four or five new players on the pitch is a reason to say he's not the right guy. I think he's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 11, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Grasshopper said: Is anyone here really serious about giving our (most likely) ONLY shot back at the big time to Steve Bruce? You say this as if it's crazy to think Steve Bruce could get us promoted. In almost the same breath as you advocate sacking him and givein our "only shot" to Mark Warburton. Genuine question, what does Warburton have that Bruce doesn't? What do you see in him that makes you think we'd have a better shot than with Bruce? Edited February 11, 2017 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: Question 1: If he says "next" then so be it. He'd have failed at the running of the club and will need to find a new owner. 100% Quote As nobody can possibly even start to think about who that would be, it's not worth even worrying or thinking about. It could be someone worse or someone much, much better (and perhaps richer). Yes, However, That would have meant 2 owners on the trot would have invested nearly half a Billion £ to have us stranded in the 2nd teer of English football. Would we get a 3rd owner on the trot with the ability to finance such funds? Quote On your bit in bold and to question 2) The owner clearly is and he clearly does. That is indeed a fact. IMHO a sad fact Edited February 11, 2017 by Grasshopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: You say this as if it's crazy to think Steve Bruce could get us promoted. Judging by results, performances, decisions and the league position we are in, I think the turnaround is too much for Bruce to do it this season. Maybe you want to argue this point. IMHO I dont think he will do it next season either. Maybe you want to argue this too, which I fully respect and you are entitled to your opinion. But, you and other posters, ridiculing an alternative opinion is simply not fair. Calling crazy, moronic, stupid amongst other put down comments is out if order in my opinion. Quote In almost the same breath as you advocate sacking him and givein our "only shot" to Mark Warburton. Genuine question, what does Warburton have that Bruce doesn't? What do you see in him that makes you think we'd have a better shot than with Bruce? Simple, Bruce has had his go, has failed, is failing and will continue to fail, again imho. Warburton, who I thought before the Sherwood, Garde & RDM appointments would have been well worth a try (of course there's never a garantee). Warburton has in fact done at Rangers what we so all dearly want to happen here. Then there is his footballing achievements at Brentford. On a side note. As the matches come & go and the results & performances dont improve, add the disapproval of the fans when the hoofball continues there will be an ever increasing pool of ambitious possible future managers who will be watching us, dreaming of a job at a big club with an owner with ambitions to match. Edited February 11, 2017 by Grasshopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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