Next Villa Manager

[HeyAnty]

6 minutes ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said:

Apologies for reposting part of my own post, but you should really read this why we should avoid Bruce from the Guardian.  Aside from the support it give my argument, I feel like that entire list of events from the end of his reign at Sunderland would simply be repeated if he joined Villa - right down to the excuse about the fans not accepting him because he was a Geordie, only this time it'd be because he used to manage the blues.

And that is exactly why Bruce wont get the job.  I don't really think he is in contention for it, else he would already have been signed up.   why we should avoid Bruce 

[Gary Thomas]

11 minutes ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said:

Apologies for reposting part of my own post, but you should really read this why we should avoid Bruce from the Guardian.  Aside from the support it give my argument, I feel like that entire list of events from the end of his reign at Sunderland would simply be repeated if he joined Villa - right down to the excuse about the fans not accepting him because he was a Geordie, only this time it'd be because he used to manage the blues.

 Well this passage (and that last sentence esp) is not a glowing reference is it given our current weaknesses - no control in midfield, unable to dictate play, failing to press home early advantages...sounds very familiar.  Hopefully he has learned a thing or two since it was written in 2011

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked

"Arguably one of the principal reasons Bruce is no longer in charge at the Stadium of Light concerns his apparent inability to tweak formations or tactics during matches. Whenever a rival manager re-configured his system mid-game.......if he failed to cut it as a tactician, the 50-year-old did not seem much of a strategist either. Including loans, 30 players were signed – several of whom have subsequently been moved on – during Bruce's two-and-a-half years on Wearside. That represents an unsettling "churn" factor and hardly proved conducive to developing either a clear playing philosophy or strong team spirit. Always rather amorphous, if not downright scrappy, Sunderland's high-tempo style lacked creativity, not to mention control, in central midfield. Unable to dictate play, the team frequently failed to press home early advantages.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Gary Thomas

[One For The Road]

22 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

To be fair though, there's a massive middle ground between 'we will go up this year' and 'we won't be anywhere near it and lets just take a crack at the playoffs next year!'

True.  But I think we can stabilise this year and have a go at a top 6 finish next season. I don't think middle table to 6th is too much of a jump. Bottom 6 to top 6 however is a serious change in fate. I think k that's too much for us at the moment.

[AntrimBlack]

I think the `promotion' - `safe mid-table' discussion is probably futile. I think that any manager coming in is bound to aim for promotion, not safe mid-table.

If he were to aim for the latter he will be doomed to fail.

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said:

Apologies for reposting part of my own post, but you should really read this why we should avoid Bruce from the Guardian.  Aside from the support it give my argument, I feel like that entire list of events from the end of his reign at Sunderland would simply be repeated if he joined Villa - right down to the excuse about the fans not accepting him because he was a Geordie, only this time it'd be because he used to manage the blues.

I guess it does raise doubts....particularly having Titus Bramble and Lee Cattermole in your ranks.

I guess being associated with Sunderland too is not awe-inspiring.....as in my view they are almost a mirror of us.

There are so many examples of "For" or "Against" all managers.....but we must remember where we are and what we are looking to do in the short term.

I would imagine those fans that want Bruce would not see him anything more than short term anyway.

[It's Your Round]

I don't know who I want anymore, just someone capable of turning our fortunes around and helping make watching Villa enjoyable again. 

[Grasshopper]

2 hours ago, Nigel said:

TBH Im not so sure going up this season would do us any good long term.  We are so mentally weak still that Id fear for us if we returned so soon. We would be in real danger of going straight back down, not only going back to square 1 mentally but having any decent assets stripped to boot.

Controversal but another season down here may not be that bad for me.

If we got promoted to the PL for next season, We would recieve LOADS of money from the TV deal and along with the rest of the £600mill that the good Dr had to hold in a Bank account to prove finances, Dr X would outspend ManC ManU Chelski Loserpool & Spuds if the players would come here.

[TRO]

33 minutes ago, Gary Thomas said:

Just spent 5mins reading Bruce's Wikipedia (link).  Here are the pros and cons as far as I can tell. Not making an argument one way or the other, just thought people might like a boiled down summary of what we will be getting. None of this says anything about the football he plays, which others are better qualified than me to comment on.

Pros

Guided Sheffield United to eighth place in the First Division

Guided Wigan to play-offs in Second Division (but lost semi-final)

Arrived at Blues (mid-table) and got them into play-offs and promoted on penalties

Led Blues to promotion to PL in 2007

Led Hull to promotion to PL in 2013

Led Hull to play-offs and promoted 2016

Guided Blues to three mid-table finishes in PL

Led Wigan to an 11th-place finish in the PL in 2009

Led Sunderland to 13th-place finish in the PL

Led Hull to an FA cup final

 

Cons

He likes Eric Black as his No 2

Failed to get Huddersfield to play-offs in 2000 (when real promotion contenders)

Got Blues relegated (but could be seen as a positive)

Got Hull relegated from PL in 2015

Managed Wigan and spent season struggling in PL against relegation

Managing Sunderland (run of 14 games without a win)

Sacked from Huddersfield in 2000 (6pts from 11 matches)

Sacked from Sunderland in 2011 (Sunderland in 16th position)

Bit of a reputation for not holding down jobs for a significant length of time

Resigned from Sheffield United after one season in charge

Almost walked out on Wigan after less than 2 months

Resigned from Wigan (after one year) to join Blues

Resigned from Wigan (again) to join Sunderland in 2009

Resigned from Hull

Likes a bit of controversy

Took his team off the pitch against Arsenal

Involved in a dispute with Huddersfield owner (who accused him of having an ego to feed)

Claimed Brady shafted him on a new contract with the club (probably true!)

Well, that is a mixed bag.

certainly no further forward on that one then....I'll spin a bottle.

[TRO]

"The 10th fence on the racecourse should not be uppermost in your mind, when you are approaching the first"

[briggaman]

I think this will be a big leap of faith, no matter who we appoint. The squad has just had a complete overhaul and the players are still only beginning to gel. Teams aren't generally thrown together overnight and despite the money we have spent, time should still be given for the team to adapt. We certainly have one of the strongest sides in the league on paper and it will be down to the next manage to unlock that potential. I'm not going to write anyone off until they are given a fair chance. Even the steady option of Bruce is a risk to an extent, although he would probably be amongst my top picks. Whoever it is they are going to need time and patience. I just hope us supporters understand that and that the board do too. Hopefully we can make a push for the top six this season, yet we need to ensure that we are promoted by the end of the following season in any case. We should not be down here...

[MrDuck]

1 hour ago, One For The Road said:

I really struggle with this talk of promotion. All it does is pile more pressure on. There was never any way on Earth that this ruined club was ever going to get promoted this year. Absolutely no chance. That hasn't changed.

What we have done though is got rid of a manager that wouldn't have take us up even next year, when I do think we could have a chance given the right circumstances.

Now we need to employ a man who can help us stabilise, stop the rot, build a solid base and be ready for a crack at the play offs next season.

Steve Bruce is such a man.

I thought we were more likely to get relegated again to be honest, and I don't think we'll go up - but I don't think it's out of the question either.

It pains me to say it a little, but I suspect you're right about Bruce.

[1974Centenary]

2 hours ago, 7392craig said:

What's the problem everyone has with Bruce? He the most likely out of all the managers mentioned to get us promoted.

Even though Wagner is currently top of this league we are struggling in?

Edited October 5, 2016 by 1974Centenary

[Hoof hearted]

I'd like either Wagner or Chris Hughton.

We'll more than likely get Bruce or Sherwood.

Sidenote: Which 'top tier' coaches are working in China currently? Wouldn't be out of the question for the doctor to source from there.

[Godders]

4 minutes ago, 1974Centenary said:

Even though Wagner is currently top of this league we are struggling in?

And we were top 11 games ago. 

Promotion happens at the end of the season, not a quarter of the way through. Huddersfield may well not be in the mix at the end of the season. Does that mean Wagner is still more likely to get us promoted than Bruce (who has done it 4 times already don't forget)?

[7392craig]

16 minutes ago, 1974Centenary said:

Even though Wagner is currently top of this league we are struggling in?

I don't see what has to do with my question? I was talking about Bruce, I never mentioned Wagner.

[terrytini]

I sometimes think football is a bit 'emperors new clothes'.

This thread reminds me very much of a chat I had recently with my lads who wanted to get rid of his knackered old Vauxhall. he said there were all sorts of bits wrong with it, kept conking out on him, and it was well past its scrap by date.  Trouble is, all the cars he could afford to replace it with were full of faults of their own.

When I read of Wagner needing his own players and lacking experience, and Bruce having had as many failures as successes, (not to mention being widely slated for his absence of tactical flexibility) and God knows how many old names from the merry go round who have more faults than qualities, makes me think, I thought most of us thought anyone with half a brain could get this Team winning ?  Perhaps not. Almost without exception our next guy will either have failed in previous jobs and been sacked, or, if he hasn't it will be because he's not been in the game long enough !

IMO it makes no difference who we get, none whatsoever.  At the level we are recruiting whether they will do well is, as before, almost entirely down to luck.

Some say (and I agree) "have a project, build for the future" - the amount of times we have said this, the amount of times other Clubs have said it - if it was that easy everyone would do it - nothing is more of a cliché than 'a project'.  And all it really does is enable a new guy to perform pretty poorly in Year One.

Some say (and again, I agree) get a new bright hope - but again, every Club would do this if it worked.  Odds are that if we go down that route it wont work - for every Wenger there are hundreds of Owen Coyles et al.

Some think 'experience' will get us promoted this year - (and yet again, I 'agree') again, if it was a simple as that Bruce and Redknapp, for example, would be highly sought after, rather than ignored.

People that want a guy in particular will easily find enough reasons to get him.  And others will find enough reasons not to.

So for my money that stick the names in a hat, do away with the charade of pretending that some Solomon like wisdom is going to prevail, and choose whoever.

And whoever it is, all keep our fingers crossed they get some luck.

[Villarocker]

1 hour ago, PussEKatt said:

For crying out loud.Its a job.Thats what managers do.In what other occupation is it ok to be sacked 4/5 times and still get a good job ?

If we get Bruce he will do as much as he can to get us up ( thats what he does ) he is not going to take the job and then try to run us into the ground just because he played/manages SHA before.

Mate, I don't know if you were referring to my post before yours but, my point wasn't that he would fail us because he played for, and managed, SHA. The points I was trying to make were:

1) After all the years of stick we have given him - which wasn't exclusive to his time at the Blues but in his other jobs where we have crossed paths - would he really be too concerned about making us fans happy?

2) If things weren't going as us fans want, whether that be results, team selections or performances, would the fans turn on him quicker than they would say Wagner, Smith, Cotterill, Pearson etc?

See, I think that the second point is the most important because say we do give Bruce the job, he - just like anybody else who gets the job - will need time to settle in and get to know the players and the best formation to put them in. That might take Wagner, Pearson etc 8-10 games but would we give Bruce that long if we had two wins and three draws from our first 8 games? I just think that Bruce wouldn't get as much time/leniency - call it what you will - from the fan base that other managers would get and what this club really needs is stability as we can't keep changing managers every 12-15 games as that's just insane for the long term future.

[handsworthlion]

I don't want Bruce, I don't want Wagner... I want Dean Smith, He could really get this club bubbling again, in a similar fashion to how John Gregory did.

[Woodytom]

I'm bored of this manager search already.

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, handsworthlion said:

I don't want Bruce, I don't want Wagner... I want Dean Smith, He could really get this club bubbling again, in a similar fashion to how John Gregory did.

In theory yes - but the Villa job has broken better men than Dean Smith over the years. He falls into the' promising but risky'  category for me. In all the years Ive followed villa only John Gregory has been plucked from a small club and done well - and he had the advantage of having worked here before.