sexbelowsound Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Difficult situation. He's our most effective attacking player and our top goalscorer but i'm still not convinced. Doesn't work well up top on his own, doesn't work well in a pair and doesn't work particularly well out wide. £15m worth of wildly inconsistent mid table Championship striker. Edited February 22, 2017 by sexbelowsound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Made more passes than bjarnason. Put more crosses in than any other player. Hogan, attempted 3 passes and completed 1 of them. 1 pass. And yet we're turning on this guy. Absolute madness. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Made more passes than bjarnason. Put more crosses in than any other player. Hogan, attempted 3 passes and completed 1 of them. 1 pass. And yet we're turning on this guy. Absolute madness. Stats are good - I like them - but these show a completely different picture than what actually happened. For example, Scott Hogan had 13 touches of the ball during that match and was completely isolated. The ball often went to Kodjia who did nothing with it. Apparently he attempted 4 crosses (that you're relating to) - none of them reaching anyone. I can't remember any of them. He was dispossessed more times than any other player which was often down to him holding the ball up and trying to turn inside to get a shot away. So incredibly predictable and led to Newcastle simply taking the ball from him. I remember Taylor(?) making overlapping runs on a couple of occasions - just not even looked at by Kodjia. He doesn't work as a team player at all. I have no real problem with that as a striker to be honest, but to say it's "madness" to "turn on him" (which I don't think anyone is doing, just criticising) is wrong. He has 0 assists this season for a reason - the guy is entirely in it for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, bobzy said: Stats are good - I like them - but these show a completely different picture than what actually happened. For example, Scott Hogan had 13 touches of the ball during that match and was completely isolated. The ball often went to Kodjia who did nothing with it. Apparently he attempted 4 crosses (that you're relating to) - none of them reaching anyone. I can't remember any of them. He was dispossessed more times than any other player which was often down to him holding the ball up and trying to turn inside to get a shot away. So incredibly predictable and led to Newcastle simply taking the ball from him. I remember Taylor(?) making overlapping runs on a couple of occasions - just not even looked at by Kodjia. He doesn't work as a team player at all. I have no real problem with that as a striker to be honest, but to say it's "madness" to "turn on him" (which I don't think anyone is doing, just criticising) is wrong. He has 0 assists this season for a reason - the guy is entirely in it for himself. I think people are turning on him. How many of our players have impressive assist stats? He's a goal scorer. To say he's in it for himself is very harsh. The guy works hard most games, a lot harder than others. Hogan was isolated, when kodjia plays as a main striker he doesn't allow himself to be isolated, he gets involved, he makes things happen. He has flaws, of course he does, he is a championship striker. But IMO there's plenty of players who deserve criticism before this guy, and as I say it's starting to turn past criticism. He works hard, clearly loves playing for the club and has a good goal scoring ratio in a team where no one else can score and we barely create any proper chances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Has to score the goals to keep us up because nobody else will. No pressure Johnny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: I think people are turning on him. How many of our players have impressive assist stats? He's a goal scorer. To say he's in it for himself is very harsh. The guy works hard most games, a lot harder than others. Hogan was isolated, when kodjia plays as a main striker he doesn't allow himself to be isolated, he gets involved, he makes things happen. He has flaws, of course he does, he is a championship striker. But IMO there's plenty of players who deserve criticism before this guy, and as I say it's starting to turn past criticism. He works hard, clearly loves playing for the club and has a good goal scoring ratio in a team where no one else can score and we barely create any proper chances. No, I disagree - he doesn't. There were times against Newcastle where Hogan was pressing their defence (along with Bjarnason, maybe?) and Kodjia was nowhere to be seen. At one point Hogan was literally turning around looking for him to see whether or not he should bother pressing. Again, I don't particularly have a problem with that necessarily - but it's not great when you're meant to be doing something as a unit. That's the problem with him. He scores goals because he takes a lot of shots - often just from ridiculous areas. Sometimes they go in and we love it (Brentford), more often than not they don't and we wonder what the hell he's doing (particularly vs. Forest). He has flaws - of course he does - but the reason he'll be criticised is because he can quite clearly do more. He has the ability to do everything in the game (can hold the ball up, can go past a man, can head the ball well, can hit the ball well) but what we've got is a striker who shoots from anywhere and isn't interested in having a partnership with anyone else. (P.S: None of our players have "impressive" assist stats - quite obviously - but of anyone to play more than 10 games (900 mins) for us this season, the list of players without an assist are Ashley Westwood, Gary Gardner, James Chester, Nathan Baker, Tommy Elphick and Jonathan Kodjia. Every single other forward player has managed an assist somewhere. Gestede, Agbonlahor, the lot. Evidently, much more important that Kodjia gets us goals, but 0 assists when being so involved?) Edited February 22, 2017 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 To get an assist you need someone to finish. As no other player seems to be able to I'm not surprised kodjia has 0 assists, despite being so involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2017 27 minutes ago, DCJonah said: To get an assist you need someone to finish. As no other player seems to be able to I'm not surprised kodjia has 0 assists, despite being so involved. I'm by no means having a go at Kodja but I can't think of a single pass, cross, chance he's created for another player where i've thought "he should have scored that". I can't even think of a single chance that Kodja has created for anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 14 minutes ago, PieFacE said: I'm by no means having a go at Kodja but I can't think of a single pass, cross, chance he's created for another player where i've thought "he should have scored that". I can't even think of a single chance that Kodja has created for anyone else. The missed pen when McCormack fluffed the rebound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: To get an assist you need someone to finish. As no other player seems to be able to I'm not surprised kodjia has 0 assists, despite being so involved. While that's partially true. There's been at least 2 occasions where McCormack would've had an open goal tap in if he passed the ball. Both games ended 1-1. That's 4 points off the board for something that's purely down to being selfish. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the bloke and I don't think he's necessarily selfish in an 'ego' ind of way, because he's as humble as they come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 36 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: While that's partially true. There's been at least 2 occasions where McCormack would've had an open goal tap in if he passed the ball. Both games ended 1-1. That's 4 points off the board for something that's purely down to being selfish. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the bloke and I don't think he's necessarily selfish in an 'ego' ind of way, because he's as humble as they come. But then we got 3 points away at QPR from him being purely selfish. Look, I'm not defending his decision making and passing ability. It's not great. But the criticism that he's greedy is OTT. Once again he made more passes that bjarnason but no one thinks he's greedy and selfish. Gayle at Newcastle only has 2 assists. Hogan before joining us had only 1. Kodjia not having any doesn't mean IMO that he's only out for himself. He's a goal scorer. And a good one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, PieFacE said: I'm by no means having a go at Kodja but I can't think of a single pass, cross, chance he's created for another player where i've thought "he should have scored that". I can't even think of a single chance that Kodja has created for anyone else. Neither can I if I'm honest. I just don't think his lack of assists means he's selfish. For me it means he makes wrong decisions and his passing is average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Neither can I if I'm honest. I just don't think his lack of assists means he's selfish. For me it means he makes wrong decisions and his passing is average. He does have blinkered vision at times but then you can say that about many good goal scorers - I think his hold up play and passing are weaknesses but his goals have been priceless . i wouldn't like to be his strike partner though as it would be frustrating at times . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Eastie said: He does have blinkered vision at times but then you can say that about many good goal scorers - I think his hold up play and passing are weaknesses but his goals have been priceless . i wouldn't like to be his strike partner though as it would be frustrating at times . That's why for me I'd have him as the lone striker. With Hogan out we need to go back to this. I'd try lansbury or hourihane just off him with adomah and green wide. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: That's why for me I'd have him as the lone striker. With Hogan out we need to go back to this. I'd try lansbury or hourihane just off him with adomah and green wide. Totally agree , could be Bruce finds his magic formula by chance . Edited February 22, 2017 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 28 minutes ago, DCJonah said: But then we got 3 points away at QPR from him being purely selfish. Look, I'm not defending his decision making and passing ability. It's not great. But the criticism that he's greedy is OTT. Once again he made more passes that bjarnason but no one thinks he's greedy and selfish. Gayle at Newcastle only has 2 assists. Hogan before joining us had only 1. Kodjia not having any doesn't mean IMO that he's only out for himself. He's a goal scorer. And a good one. Partly because: a] Bjarnason has played 4(?) games for us and b] Bjarnason still averages more passes per game than Kodjia anyway Kodjia is indeed a goal scorer - and a decent enough one. He needs to be the lone man though. He simply doesn't work as a two because he's selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 He averages 1 pass more. 1 pass less makes kodjia out for himself and selfish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Most goals for the team playing up top and Bruce plays him out wide which has never looked like working. Also plays useless Bjarnason over player with most assists. More evidence Bruce is a complete clearing in the woods that needs to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Most goals for the team playing up top and Bruce plays him out wide which has never looked like working. Also plays useless Bjarnason over player with most assists. More evidence Bruce is a complete clearing in the woods that needs to go Kodjia has 5 goals starting as a striker, 6 goals starting right/left. Edited February 22, 2017 by kurtsimonw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 minute ago, kurtsimonw said: Kodjia has 5 goals starting as a striker, 6 goals starting right/left. How many starting left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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