Jonathan Kodjia

[KenjiOgiwara]

I think you gotta give credit when credit's due. He was very much a team player against Bolton. 

Grealish scored a goal as well, and his lack of goals was always my biggest criticism of him. Well done all around. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

we need to see less of the first half and more of the second. It was like 2 different players. The first one needs to be dropped but the second one has to start.  

[praisedmambo]

2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I think you gotta give credit when credit's due. He was very much a team player against Bolton. 

Grealish scored a goal as well, and his lack of goals was always my biggest criticism of him. Well done all around. 

He looked good against QPR too. Considering our options out wide, I hope he continues doing well.

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Not really. As I said the criticism of him wasn’t purely based on the Bolton game but I don’t think he played particularly well in it.

I don’t agree that he passes better than every attacking player except Grealish irrespective of whatever stats you’ve seen for the Bolton game. In my opinion McGinn and Abraham are significantly better.

I’ve seen enough of him during his time here to say with confidence that he frequently doesn’t pass when he should and that when he does so his passing is poor.

The phrase better passer is wrong. I agree others are better passers of the ball. 

His decision making is poor at times but then his main role has been to be a scorer. Only recently has he been asked to play a supporting role and the last game showed he is improving in that role. 

I find it strange that you are so critical of kodjia because of his lack of passing ability yet strongly defend Hogan as a forward, when his passing ability has been abysmal during his 2 years here.

[TrentVilla]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

His decision making is poor at times but then his main role has been to be a scorer. Only recently has he been asked to play a supporting role and the last game showed he is improving in that role. 

I find it strange that you are so critical of kodjia because of his lack of passing ability yet strongly defend Hogan as a forward, when his passing ability has been abysmal during his 2 years here.

Yes previously his main roll has been as a goal scorer and as I said in my first post, his previous goal scoring record made him largely immune from criticism. It also made him secure in the team but he isn’t/doesn’t score goals currently as he did previously and hasn’t really since his injury.

Therefore with a manager like Smith who wants to retain the ball and use it that makes him vulnerable. Do you not agree? If he isn’t playing as our main striker, which currently seems to be Abraham then I think he is vulnerable in terms of his place in the side especially as Bolasie approaches fitness.

As for Hogan I’m not sure it’s really a valid comparison. I’m critical of Kodjia for what I think is a weakness in his game, he has throughout his time here been guilty of poor decision making, selfish player and missed passing opportunities or poor passing.

I don’t though defend Hogan on those things so there is no disparity there. What I defend Hogan on is his scoring record for instance when it was recently claimed he enjoyed one short purple patch which was factually incorrect or when it was claimed he had played for 10 years in the league which was again factually incorrect.

Wjat I’ve also consistently said about Hogan is that writing him off, dismissing him as a player for how he played under the dinosaur that was Bruce was in my view wrong. 

 

[DCJonah]

11 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Yes previously his main roll has been as a goal scorer and as I said in my first post, his previous goal scoring record made him largely immune from criticism. It also made him secure in the team but he isn’t/doesn’t score goals currently as he did previously and hasn’t really since his injury.

Therefore with a manager like Smith who wants to retain the ball and use it that makes him vulnerable. Do you not agree? If he isn’t playing as our main striker, which currently seems to be Abraham then I think he is vulnerable in terms of his place in the side especially as Bolasie approaches fitness.

As for Hogan I’m not sure it’s really a valid comparison. I’m critical of Kodjia for what I think is a weakness in his game, he has throughout his time here been guilty of poor decision making, selfish player and missed passing opportunities or poor passing.

I don’t though defend Hogan on those things so there is no disparity there. What I defend Hogan on is his scoring record for instance when it was recently claimed he enjoyed one short purple patch which was factually incorrect or when it was claimed he had played for 10 years in the league which was again factually incorrect.

Wjat I’ve also consistently said about Hogan is that writing him off, dismissing him as a player for how he played under the dinosaur that was Bruce was in my view wrong. 

 

Against bolton his pass completion was 87% and in the previous game against qpr it was 90%. Both games his passing stats have been much stronger than other attacking players. It seems he is doing what the manager wants from him. If ball retention makes you vulnerable then adomah and abraham should be more worried based on recent games. 

[TrentVilla]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Against bolton his pass completion was 87% and in the previous game against qpr it was 90%. Both games his passing stats have been much stronger than other attacking players. It seems he is doing what the manager wants from him. If ball retention makes you vulnerable then adomah and abraham should be more worried based on recent games. 

I’ll take that as a no then.

As Insaid previously, and mean no offence when I say it, I’m not interested in stats. But I agree Adomah is vulnerable also.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, TrentVilla said:

I’ll take that as a no then.

As Insaid previously, and mean no offence when I say it, I’m not interested in stats. But I agree Adomah is vulnerable also.

I'm not someone who thinks stats are everything, but i'm not sure how else you can discuss ball rentention without referring to them. If he plays like he has done so far under Smith, i can't see why he'd be dropped.

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

I'm not someone who thinks stats are everything, but i'm not sure how else you can discuss ball rentention without referring to them. If he plays like he has done so far under Smith, i can't see why he'd be dropped.

Because it’s not just about ball retention but how you use the ball.

Glenn Whelan retains the ball and I’d imagine has good passing stats but he rarely passes the ball more than a few yards sideways.

Anyway, I wasn’t really trying to have a discussion about ball retention I just gave my view on Kodjia.

[DCJonah]

20 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Because it’s not just about ball retention but how you use the ball.

Glenn Whelan retains the ball and I’d imagine has good passing stats but he rarely passes the ball more than a few yards sideways.

Anyway, I wasn’t really trying to have a discussion about ball retention I just gave my view on Kodjia.

In fairness, your view started with can't pass, won't pass. That's going to shift the discussion towards passing and just isn't an accurate statement. 

I agree with how he uses the ball is important. In the last two games I think he has been positive with his use of the ball, certainly better than adomah and apart from one key pass to grealish, he has used it better than abraham. 

For me he is part of our strongest 11 and I don't see what he's done since smith arrived that would change that. 

[villa89]

29 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I'm not someone who thinks stats are everything, but i'm not sure how else you can discuss ball rentention without referring to them. 

You can do it by just discussing the game and how a player played in it. You don't need stats because football is not a game that can be measured accurately in statistics in my opinion, (despite the fact that the media try to ram them down our throat at every opportunity). 

On Kodjia I'm not sure he will be a starter for us in 2019. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by villa89

[Dr_Pangloss]

Kodjia is a weak link on the left hand side, he doesn't have enough quality to play there, it's really not his position at all. Our wing situation is a bit of a mess, Adomah has lost it and isn't delivering, Elmo is doing well on the right given the circumstances but his short comings in that position are obvious to anyone who knows football, Bolasie is not fit and there's question marks about whether he will ever recover and El Ghazi doesn't appear to be 'ready'. I have to laugh when people talk about how 'good' our squad is, it's mess in so many areas.

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, villa89 said:

You can do it by just discussing the game and how a player played in it. You don't need stats because football is not a game that can be measured accurately in statistics in my opinion, (despite the fact that the media try to ram them down our throat at every opportunity). 

On Kodjia I'm not sure he will be a starter for us in 2019. 

The problem is, just discussing it will always be subjective to peoples opinions. Someone thinks kodjia doesn't pass the ball much and reaches that conclusion from watching the game. The facts will be different though.

Stats shouldn't be everything but they are useful to support an opinion. 

[villa89]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

The problem is, just discussing it will always be subjective to peoples opinions.

That's part of the beauty of the game imo. One man's diabolical full back is another man's Scottish cafu. 

Your right though on occasion stats can be mildly useful but they always need to be taken with a large pinch o' salt. 

[TrentVilla]

14 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

The problem is, just discussing it will always be subjective to peoples opinions. Someone thinks kodjia doesn't pass the ball much and reaches that conclusion from watching the game. The facts will be different though.

Stats shouldn't be everything but they are useful to support an opinion. 

The problem is they can usually be used to support any opinion. There in lies the problem.

[Fowlersrs]

I'm in too minds... he works hard, he frustrates, it's quite clear he can't play as a front 2.. If we let him leave in Jan I wouldn't be devastated but he's atleast trying unlike some

[rodders0223]

We are on the break, we are two on two, the ball goes wide to Kodjia.

Taking into account he has appeared less selfish in recent moments, I do believe he will do the right thing.....but do I...

a) Trust him to make the right pass

b) Trust him to make that pass at the optimal moment

c) Execute that pass to make the chance as easy as it should be.

 

I don't.

[AVTuco]

14 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

We are on the break, we are two on two, the ball goes wide to Kodjia.

Taking into account he has appeared less selfish in recent moments, I do believe he will do the right thing.....but do I...

a) Trust him to make the right pass

b) Trust him to make that pass at the optimal moment

c) Execute that pass to make the chance as easy as it should be.

 

I don't.

I agree, his passing is terrible, whatever stats say. I'd rather he tried to score himself. He's more useful that way.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Completed more passes than Mcginn.

Completed more passes than abraham, adomah and bolassie combined. 

For some reason Kodjia has always had his haters. I don't get it  

Not haters......doubters.

[DCJonah]

41 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

We are on the break, we are two on two, the ball goes wide to Kodjia.

Taking into account he has appeared less selfish in recent moments, I do believe he will do the right thing.....but do I...

a) Trust him to make the right pass

b) Trust him to make that pass at the optimal moment

c) Execute that pass to make the chance as easy as it should be.

 

I don't.

Do we have any wide players you would trust with that?