Dalian Atkinson

[Demitri_C]

5 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said:

The George Floyd incident was filmed and put online (I think immediately) after. Everyone could see exactly what happened and draw their own conclusions from it.

Sadly, in this case, there is no video evidence and until it gets to court when coroners reports etc come in to the public domain all we hear about it is the vague story about a disturbance, a man with mental health issues and him sadly passing away from being tased due to underlying health issues.

Just shows again how ludicrous it is that the police aren't legally obligated to keep their bodycam attached and filming. Often when they are filming they say it's for everyone's protection, so I assume not bothering to get it from the station or turn it on means a few seconds of their time are more important that protecting the public. That, or they are leaving them off on purpose so they can act a certain way. Neither are a great look/excuse.

Yeah i agree with that sam. Esp with the body cam point. Its ridiculous. 

But the allegations that he was tasered three times then brutally assaulted is disgusting.

This is why i think this is as bad as the george floyd case.

I think your point about seeing the footage with floyd is also valid. Would that have been as much as outrage had there not been footage? Difficult one to answer.

In this case the evidence is there to see from the officiers boot to Atkinson's head. Its absolute madness.

[Sam-AVFC]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah i agree with that sam. Esp with the body cam point. Its ridiculous. 

But the allegations that he was tasered three times then brutally assaulted is disgusting.

This is why i think this is as bad as the george floyd case.

I think your point about seeing the footage with floyd is also valid. Would that have been as much as outrage had there not been footage? Difficult one to answer.

In this case the evidence is there to see from the officiers boot to Atkinson's head. Its absolute madness.

The whole thing stinks and I agree it's pretty mad it got to court with 99.9% of the population not knowing about it. I had no idea he'd even been charged. 

[robby b]

11 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah i agree with that sam. Esp with the body cam point. Its ridiculous. 

But the allegations that he was tasered three times then brutally assaulted is disgusting.

This is why i think this is as bad as the george floyd case.

I think your point about seeing the footage with floyd is also valid. Would that have been as much as outrage had there not been footage? Difficult one to answer.

In this case the evidence is there to see from the officiers boot to Atkinson's head. Its absolute madness.

Kicked in the head, very hard.

It's not as if Dalian Atkinson was one or two seconds away from trying to murder the police officer. This was not a self-defence karate kick at a conscious man charging at him with a knife... This was a kick at an unarmed, unconsious man, to the head, very hard, twice.

That is disgusting, I agree Dem, that really is a brutal assault. I was astonished to read yesterday that that happened. These kicks to his head are along the lines of what that US cop did to George Floyd in that it's just so wrong. And the tasering for 33 seconds, rather than just a few seconds, that really sounds wrong too. 

[AvfcRigo82]

2 hours ago, robby b said:

Kicked in the head, very hard.

It's not as if Dalian Atkinson was one or two seconds away from trying to murder the police officer. This was not a self-defence karate kick at a conscious man charging at him with a knife... This was a kick at an unarmed, unconsious man, to the head, very hard, twice.

That is disgusting, I agree Dem, that really is a brutal assault. I was astonished to read yesterday that that happened. These kicks to his head are along the lines of what that US cop did to George Floyd in that it's just so wrong. And the tasering for 33 seconds, rather than just a few seconds, that really sounds wrong too. 

It's totally sickening.

[Demitri_C]

3 hours ago, robby b said:

Kicked in the head, very hard.

It's not as if Dalian Atkinson was one or two seconds away from trying to murder the police officer. This was not a self-defence karate kick at a conscious man charging at him with a knife... This was a kick at an unarmed, unconsious man, to the head, very hard, twice.

That is disgusting, I agree Dem, that really is a brutal assault. I was astonished to read yesterday that that happened. These kicks to his head are along the lines of what that US cop did to George Floyd in that it's just so wrong. And the tasering for 33 seconds, rather than just a few seconds, that really sounds wrong too. 

If you think about it this three or dour assualts on atkinson. Its like they didnt suceed at hurting him first couple times and they just wanted to finiah him off after the 3rd and 4th assault.

Its disgusting vile and the  book should be thrown at both of them. Taking us back and giving a majority of the good police we have a bad name.

[NurembergVillan]

For context, watch this video and consider that the officer was holding the trigger for the entirety of the time.  33 seconds sounds like so little, but this will really bring it home.

Harrowing stuff.

Now remember that after this, the officer then kicked Dalian twice in the head with such force as to leave shoelace imprints on his skin.  I've never even seen that accidentally on a football pitch.

[PaulC]

2 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

For context, watch this video and consider that the officer was holding the trigger for the entirety of the time.  33 seconds sounds like so little, but this will really bring it home.

Harrowing stuff.

Now remember that after this, the officer then kicked Dalian twice in the head with such force as to leave shoelace imprints on his skin.  I've never even seen that accidentally on a football pitch.

Yes theres no way that can be just manslaughter.

[mikeyp102]

Shocking

Two police officers "colluded" in their account of what happened after the death of an ex-footballer, a court has heard.

PC Benjamin Monk is on trial charged with murdering former Aston Villa star Dalian Atkinson in Telford in 2016.

Prosecutors claim he and PC Mary-Ellen Bettley-Smith, who is charged with assault, used excessive force. Both deny the charges.

Mr Atkinson was Tasered, kicked and hit with a baton, the jury heard.

Prosecutors at Birmingham Crown Court said the similarity of the officers' accounts was "indicative" they had discussed how "to account for their unlawful attack on an unarmed man".......

 

The more you hear the worse it sounds. Although, can’t see the officer being found guilty for murder, but manslaughter has to be. 

[AvfcRigo82]

Also, both officers guilty at the scene are or were in a relationship together.

 

[Demitri_C]

Theh really are trying to potray atkinson as a "madman" and they were terrified. If they were that scared why didnt they call for backup?

 

[robby b]

He died because of a combination of his heart disease and, according to the pathologists, the tasering for such an excessive amount of time and the kicks to his head. And yet the taser officer isn't even admitting to the lesser charge of manslaughter! How does that work?! Ridiculous.

(Actually, I'm no scientist, I'm now wondering if a person with a normal, healthy heart could die of heart failure too anyway if tasered for that long?)

And the officer charged with murder has probably said 'oh but how were we to know he had a heart problem?' Well actually quite a lot of people do so maybe it's best not to taser someone for a very long time just in case?!

And the other officer hitting him with a baton for good measure several times as he lay unconscious, wtf?! Also sickening.

Edited May 6, 2021 by robby b

[Demitri_C]

5 minutes ago, robby b said:

Well actually quite a lot of people do so maybe it's best not to taser someone for a very long time just in case?!

Its dangerous territory if we start heading in that direction. Policing will become even more difficult.

For me its about enforcing better policing where you dont have idiots like these two brutally taking it too far. No where in their statement form what i have seen does it say atkinson assaulted them.

What would they have done if he punched and kicked them? Tasered him for afurther 60 seconds?

[robby b]

It looks like PC Monk was very angry and it was his intention to be unnecessarily very violent to Dalian Atkinson, but it will be difficult to prove that it was also his intention to actually kill him. However, he must have known there is a risk of killing someone with a very hard kick to the head.

If he doesn't get convicted of murder then I think he should get the absolute maximum number of years in prison possible for manslaughter and GBH, and the other officer the maximum for serious assault. They need to serve as examples to any dodgy, violent police officers or violent people who are considering joining the police, and to the wider society. It's good that this case has been at the top of the BBC's front page for the last two days. 

Poor Dalian. The last few years of his life must have been very hard being so seriously ill. But I do wonder if his heart disease could have been reduced significantly and a new kidney transplanted if he hadn't been killed by that officer. Modern medicine is amazing afterall. Instead his life was cut short while still in his 40s.

Edited May 7, 2021 by robby b

[Genie]

There’s probably a good reason why the tasers limit to 5 seconds, you know, in case it gives someone a heart attack. 

[Genie]

My first ever Villa game was a 1-0 win against Chelsea. We sat in the upper North Stand and watched Dalian score the only goal, a back post header. I can still see it now.

[PaulC]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

My first ever Villa game was a 1-0 win against Chelsea. We sat in the upper North Stand and watched Dalian score the only goal, a back post header. I can still see it now.

At his peak he was a phenomenal player and his injury in the 1992/93 season was the main reason we didn't lift the title.  The Saunders Atkinson partnership was the best in the country and I think Dalian picked up an injury which kept him out for 2/3 months

Edited May 6, 2021 by PaulC

[PaulC]

It puzzles me that Dalian was being dealt with by the police when he was in an acute psychotic condition. There are trained people who could have dealt with this in a much more appropriate manner using restraining equipment and sedatives. its a failure all round. On reflection it probably is man slaughter but if the police are not trained to deal with these situations they are not totally to blame. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by PaulC

[OutByEaster?]

Reading some of the witness statements from today is awful, both of the witnesses describe the policeman as stamping repeatedly on Dalian's head - while Dalian wasn't moving.

The more you read about this case, the more appalling the behaviour of the male officer in particular appears to be.

 

[snowychap]

On 04/05/2021 at 17:38, Panto_Villan said:

I can understand the police being frightened especially given they previously tased him twice to no effect

What?

They were a danger because my first two punches didn't seem to hurt?

[snowychap]

On 04/05/2021 at 18:40, Xela said:

Murder would indicate there was intent to kill Dalian.

I don't think that's right.

If there's an intent to cause GBH and murder (death) results then that's sufficient.

Edited May 6, 2021 by snowychap