cyrusr Posted June 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted June 23, 2021 47 minutes ago, sidcow said: I don't think it's that simple. It was unanimous, they can't all be racist police protectionists. There must be some technical test they just couldn't get over. In my mind he definitely decided to hurt Dalian as badly as he could and used force likely to kill him. The OTT tazering is bad enough but the head kicks of an unconscious man are disgusting and intended to cause serious harm to him. Whatever manslaughter can carry as maximum needs to be the sentence. Manslaughter can be life imprisonment. Once they have determined the case against the other officer more details will come out I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I'm glad some form of justice has been done in this case. I'm also a bit surprised it was manslaughter rather than murder though. Hopefully in the future the increasing prevalance of police bodycams will remove any element of doubt around cases such as these, and we'll see more convictions in situations where the police have overstepped the limits of reasonable force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted June 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: I'm glad some form of justice has been done in this case. I'm also a bit surprised it was manslaughter rather than murder though. Hopefully in the future the increasing prevalance of police bodycams will remove any element of doubt around cases such as these, and we'll see more convictions in situations where the police have overstepped the limits of reasonable force. I don’t think it can be Murder without intent, and a taser is theoretically non-lethal, but I must say that the details of the response from the police that came out during the trial were shocking and I’m glad that some form of justice has been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said: I'm glad some form of justice has been done in this case. I'm also a bit surprised it was manslaughter rather than murder though. Hopefully in the future the increasing prevalance of police bodycams will remove any element of doubt around cases such as these, and we'll see more convictions in situations where the police have overstepped the limits of reasonable force. Didn't they have the bodycams switched off for at least part of the time during this encounter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Didn't they have the bodycams switched off for at least part of the time during this encounter? This happened five years ago, which was before they started really pushing police bodycams, so honestly I'm not sure if they were turned off or the police just weren't equipped with them. However I imagine this case would have been resolved a lot faster if there was footage that could be reviewed by the IPCC / shown in court. EDIT - no, looks like they weren't equipped with them. Edited June 23, 2021 by Panto_Villan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted June 23, 2021 Moderator Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 hours ago, HKP90 said: I don’t think it can be Murder without intent, and a taser is theoretically non-lethal, but I must say that the details of the response from the police that came out during the trial were shocking and I’m glad that some form of justice has been done. It can, if force is used that could be reasonably expected to kill. The get-out clause is if there was a serious risk of threat, so that must be what was proven in order to deliver a manslaughter verdict. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talldarkandransome Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1) I don’t understand how a copper can deny kicking someone in the head but then say I must have though as there was bootlace marks on his forehead. 2) How can kicking someone in the head while they are lying on the floor be used as defence for reasonable force, after denying it happened in the first place. 3) I hope the **** gets life 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Sentencing guidelines set the following "Starting Points" for various acts of Manslaughter that could be applicable in this case. Negligence 12 Years Loss Of Control 14 Years During An Unlawful Act 18 Years His defence will obviously be pushing the negligence explanation. Although some of the facts of the case tend to suggest "Loss Of Control" (ie kicks to the head). Personally I don't think there is enough evidence to show that the arrest was in itself unlawful. Once the starting points has been established it may be further reduced by other factors. My guess would be a Loss Of Control starting point of 14 years which is then reduced to somewhere around 10. But you never know until the pre sentencing reports are available. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) A terrible incident and good to see justice is being done. Feel for the families for the near five year timeframe between the incident and the trial. Edited June 23, 2021 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: A terrible incident and good to see justice is being done. Feel for the families for the near five year timeframe between the incident and the trial. Yes, it would be interesting to see a timeline demonstrating exactly what happened to make up that five-year process. I think delays like this are one of the things people find most frustrating about the criminal justice system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted June 24, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted June 24, 2021 The jury has failed to reach a verdict regarding the other officer involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Can the Attorney General ask for a sentence to be reviewed if she thinks it's too high? Will the current government (seek to) introduce a law to reduce the criminal penalty for (murder or) manslaughter if committed in similar circumstances by police officers in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayk Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) On 23/06/2021 at 13:43, sidcow said: In my mind he definitely decided to hurt Dalian as badly as he could and used force likely to kill him. The OTT tazering is bad enough but the head kicks of an unconscious man are disgusting and intended to cause serious harm to him. Mate, that’s Grevious Bodily Harm. I mean how hard do you have to kick someone in the head to leave bootlace marks? Now to have done that Dalian must have been already incapacitated from the taser. Phrase of kicking a man while their down comes to mind…. How on earth can that not be GBH? Just imagine this scenario. Dalian overpowered the officer, got his Taser, repeatedly tasered him and kicked him in the head a few times. He’d have been up for murder and rightly found guilty. However, it wasn’t that way round but it doesn’t change what one man did to another but this guy got lucky because he’s a police officer. Edited June 25, 2021 by rayk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayk Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Also, and rather sickenly, PC Monk and PC Bettley-Smith were shagging at the time. I bet that wasn’t disclosed at the time to their superior officers. But if it was, to put a couple out on duty was just wrong. No wonder the body cams were switched off for a period of time. Clearly when PC Monk was kicking Dalian in the head as otherwise there would have e been footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Monk sentenced to 8 years, two-thirds to be served in custody. Disappointing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 8 years isnt accountability. What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmik Debris Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Whether he was having mental issues or not this is totally unacceptable and shows what a terrible state the CPS and criminal law bodies are in. This is no justice especially when he will no doubt be released on good behaviour.. The only small saving grace is the fact that coppers do not bode well inside but that’s little comfort to Dalians family, friends and fans. RIP… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 On 23/06/2021 at 19:45, Mandy Lifeboats said: Sentencing guidelines set the following "Starting Points" for various acts of Manslaughter that could be applicable in this case. Negligence 12 Years Loss Of Control 14 Years During An Unlawful Act 18 Years His defence will obviously be pushing the negligence explanation. Although some of the facts of the case tend to suggest "Loss Of Control" (ie kicks to the head). Personally I don't think there is enough evidence to show that the arrest was in itself unlawful. Once the starting points has been established it may be further reduced by other factors. My guess would be a Loss Of Control starting point of 14 years which is then reduced to somewhere around 10. But you never know until the pre sentencing reports are available. I'm afraid this sentence was completely predictable. I calculated 10 years of which he'd serve 5 in custody. The judge went for 8 years with 2/3 in custody. Which is only slightly over 5. In fact he could easily have received less. The only way he could have been sentenced to more is if the arrest itself was unlawful. That just wasn't the case. The method was unlawful. The act wasn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 Whilst 5 years is a long time (what were you doing in 2016?) - I don't think it's enough for this crime. Should have been a minimum of 10 years in custody and would have been for any other street thug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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