Dalian Atkinson

[Panto_Villan]

3 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Whilst 5 years is a long time (what were you doing in 2016?) - I don't think it's enough for this crime. 

Should have been a minimum of 10 years in custody and would have been for any other street thug.

I very much doubt it would - prison sentences frequently aren't as long as most people assume they are, even for serious crimes.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Panto_Villan

[Mandy Lifeboats]

4 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Should have been a minimum of 10 years in custody and would have been for any other street thug.

Probably.   But have a look at my post regarding the sentencing guidelines.  A street thug would probably be undertaking an illegal act.  That immediately raises the starting point for sentencing. Then you could assume a previous criminal record which could add years.  

The only thing going against this ex-Police Officer was that he had a duty of care over his victim. The only way he'd get a higher sentence was if Dalian had been placid.  In which case he'd undoubtedly be convicted of murder.  

 

[snowychap]

4 hours ago, Cosmik Debris said:

shows what a terrible state the CPS ... [is in]

How do you figure that?

Edited June 29, 2021 by snowychap

[snowychap]

 

[Talldarkandransome]

3 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Probably.   But have a look at my post regarding the sentencing guidelines.  A street thug would probably be undertaking an illegal act.  That immediately raises the starting point for sentencing. Then you could assume a previous criminal record which could add years.  

The only thing going against this ex-Police Officer was that he had a duty of care over his victim. The only way he'd get a higher sentence was if Dalian had been placid.  In which case he'd undoubtedly be convicted of murder.  

 

Isn't being unconscious classed as placid.

5-8 years is appalinging lenient.

Coppers are there to protect and to serve

[Mandy Lifeboats]

 @Talldarkandransome I shall not disagree. I personally agree with you.  

But my point about being placid is that (with all respect to Dalian) some force could  justified to a jury.   Had he been placid throug, no force would have been justified.  That would have put the offence in a new league.  

I estimated  the sentence as 10 years.  Therefore,  I agree completely that 8 is lenient.  But 66% of 8 years is very similar to 50% of 10 years.  

 

[icouldtelltheworld]

The female officer is going to be retrialled on an assault charge against Dalian. 

[briny_ear]

On 29/06/2021 at 20:57, Mandy Lifeboats said:

 @Talldarkandransome I shall not disagree. I personally agree with you.  

But my point about being placid is that (with all respect to Dalian) some force could  justified to a jury.   Had he been placid throug, no force would have been justified.  That would have put the offence in a new league.  

I estimated  the sentence as 10 years.  Therefore,  I agree completely that 8 is lenient.  But 66% of 8 years is very similar to 50% of 10 years.  

 

Funny old world. 

So kicking someone who has just been tasered for an illegal 33 seconds in the head so hard your shoelaces leave an imprint is justified because Dalian was "not placid"?

I bow in amazement to the fairness and humanity of our system of justice.

[Mandy Lifeboats]

10 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Funny old world. 

So kicking someone who has just been tasered for an illegal 33 seconds in the head so hard your shoelaces leave an imprint is justified because Dalian was "not placid"?

I bow in amazement to the fairness and humanity of our system of justice.

I am not defending the sentencing.  I am explaining it.  
 

if you look back at my posts you’ll see that I outline the 3 different “types” of man slaughter that could have applied.  They were negligent, loss of control and during a criminal act.  
 

There are much higher sentences if it’s during a criminal act.  Whilst no-one feels that the method was correct the arrest itself wasn’t illegal.  Had it been done correctly it would have been for Dalian’s benefit.  
 

I used the example of someone being placid as a reason why the arrest itself could have been deemed illegal.  Thereby moving it to the higher sentence.  
 

Just to be 100% clear to everyone.  I am explaining the sentence NOT defending it.   

[briny_ear]

   

Quote

Dalian Atkinson: Police apologise for killing black ex-footballer https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59798500

Edited December 27, 2021 by briny_ear

[The_Steve]

Their apology means nothing

 

[MakemineVanilla]

In my personal view the crime was far worse than that of Derek Chauvin.

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

That will bring him back. Disgusting. Poke your apology up your arse

[R.Bear]

We all joke around on here but apologising after killing someone? **** off.

But keeping it positive, RIP Dalian, he was in god mode during that League Cup run and his final goal is one of the most memorable in Villa history

[HanoiVillan]

9 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

In my personal view the crime was far worse than that of Derek Chauvin.

The Chauvin one was really really bad too!

But it's quite remarkable that one provoked global protests for racial equality, while one has been largely ignored, and it's kind of weird that the death of the prominent former top-level athlete of the national sport is the one that has largely been ignored.

[MakemineVanilla]

8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

But it's quite remarkable that one provoked global protests for racial equality, while one has been largely ignored, and it's kind of weird that the death of the prominent former top-level athlete of the national sport is the one that has largely been ignored.

This!

[foreveryoung]

Too true and absolutely shocked this didn't get more coverage, it's not too different to the 'one' you mention.  As raving as it sounds, I think it needed to be someone who played for the top 4, then it would have got the super Sky racial coverage it deserved.

[icouldtelltheworld]

11 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

But it's quite remarkable that one provoked global protests for racial equality, while one has been largely ignored, and it's kind of weird that the death of the prominent former top-level athlete of the national sport is the one that has largely been ignored.

Definitely - my hot take is that this is due to the extent that British progressives/the left more generally currently look to America for inspiration rather than focusing on issues closer to home. 

There's also a long standing trend for stories from the Midlands to be overlooked at the national level. If this had happened in Tottenham rather than Telford, I imagine the coverage would've been very different.

[briny_ear]

I see this case has come to court again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-63037836

Got a horrible feeling the female PC is going to get off - obviously beating someone to death with a baton when he is lying comatose on the floor, because you are "frightened" of him is a strong defence.

Whatever, she has no place in the police service IMHO.

Quote

Dalian Atkinson: PC 'frightened' when she struck retired footballer with baton

• Published
  21 hours ago

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IMAGE SOURCE,PA MEDIA Image caption,

PC Mary Ellen Bettley-Smith denies assault occasioning actual bodily harm

A police officer charged with assaulting retired footballer Dalian Atkinson shortly before he died told a jury she was "very, very frightened" when she struck him with a baton.

PC Mary Ellen Bettley-Smith said she hit the 48-year-old "to try to restrain him" in Shropshire in August 2016.

Prosecutors allege she angrily hit him when "no longer a threat" after being tasered by PC Benjamin Monk.

But PC Bettley-Smith denied acting unlawfully at Birmingham Crown Court.

England B international Mr Atkinson, who retired in 2001 after playing for clubs including Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday, died in hospital about an hour after being tasered in Telford.

Monk was convicted of his manslaughter last year.

The court has heard Mr Atkinson, who had health problems including kidney failure, had been acting out of character and smashed a window at his father's home in Meadow Close.

PC Bettley-Smith, who denies assault occasioning actual bodily harm, was giving evidence in her defence in the third week of a retrial.

 

IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES Image caption,

Dalian Atkinson died in August 2016

Asked by defence KC Richard Smith whether she hit Atkinson "simply because you were angry with him?" she replied "I did not".

She also denied using her baton "because she was told to" by Monk, telling the jury: "I hit Mr Atkinson with my baton after the third taser.

"I still perceived him as a threat so I used my police baton to try and keep him on the floor ....to try and restrain him."

Asked what her main emotion was at that point she replied: "I was terrified - very, very frightened."

She said Atkinson looked "huge" during the incident.

"He just looked so angry. He looked like he wanted to fight," she added.

Claiming an initial taser firing had no effect, the West Mercia Police officer said: "My expectation was that Mr Atkinson would go down or do something. There was literally no reaction."

PC Bettley-Smith said after the first taser cartridge was fired by PC Monk, he said to run and that is what they did.

"All of this happened in such a quick amount of time. It's hard to put into words all these years later, but it was terrifying. You have had a taser fail.

"It was a very frightening experience. I think in my interview I said my life flashed before my eyes and that is still to this day a good representation of how I felt," she said.

She also told jurors she had never before drawn her baton during her duties.

The trial continues.

 

[Demitri_C]

She will get off 100% disgusting and there should bw riots if she does.