Villa Park redevelopment

[VillaJ100]

Surely those houses either side of vp wouldn't cost more than 20 mil to buy em all? 

[OutByEaster?]

12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Yes, in a resource-constraint-free world my preferred development would be a small amount of underground parking for the VIPs under the current car park and sort-of-under the new enlarged stand, but I assume it's probably hoping for too much.

That "Small amount" thing will be the big question. Another of those weird little problems that a giant new stand throws up - you expand and as a result you sacrifice some of your parking, but in expanding you add 1,000 more hospitality places for which you need more parking.

On a match day, with an extended hospitality offering in the North Stand, Villa might put down 4,000 plates. Those people are going to want a lot of car park.

The more I think about it, a multi-story at the back, behind where the ticket office is or where the academy building currently is might be a decent solution - hospitality people arrive early and leave in dribs and drabs so there shouldn't be too much of a problem in them queuing at the car park to get in or out and they'll enter and leave into streets that will be mostly clear.

[avfc1982am]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

I think I made it quite clear that I don't imagine that

Lol...I forgot the 'Can'. It wasn't a personal point but a general one. 

[thabucks]

11 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said:

Surely those houses either side of vp wouldn't cost more than 20 mil to buy em all? 

A quick check on zoopla and the average price of houses on Nelson Road and Holte Road is between £140k - £150k … Let’s be generous and say £200k and it’s around 40 houses from Google street view so approx £8million guesstimate - issue is they’ll have to all want to sell and without CPO’s that’ll be tricky 

[OutByEaster?]

2 minutes ago, thabucks said:

A quick check on zoopla and the average price of houses on Nelson Road and Holte Road is between £140k - £150k … Let’s be generous and say £200k and it’s around 40 houses from Google street view so approx £8million guesstimate - issue is they’ll have to all want to sell and without CPO’s that’ll be tricky 

I suspect the problems will be more political than financial - the housing crisis means that the UK needs to build 340,000 new homes a year between now and 2031 - that's a lot of houses and as a result, we're building on green belt land and there is a lot of noise around planning permissions and this government (guess what) profiting from house building companies. There's also a big squeeze on urban housing - it's unlikely that the people living in Nelson and Holte Road are the owners of those houses and they'll want to find houses locally so that they don't have to uproot their lives - right now, the last thing Birmingham city council wants is to be seen to be knocking down good housing stock for the benefit of a football club and they'll be really averse to seeing some sad faced family on the front of the Birmingham Mail complaining about homelessness as a result.

I think we'd find it very difficult to get that one around the council.

 

[thabucks]

@OutByEaster? I agree the optics will look pretty bad if we go down that route… I cannot see any other way though for meaningful expansion of the Witton especially 

[blandy]

3 hours ago, sidcow said:

They should build a bingo hall on The Holte car park imo. 

Yeah, and make it a Mecca for people to flock to.

[sidcow]

36 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I suspect the problems will be more political than financial - the housing crisis means that the UK needs to build 340,000 new homes a year between now and 2031 - that's a lot of houses and as a result, we're building on green belt land and there is a lot of noise around planning permissions and this government (guess what) profiting from house building companies. There's also a big squeeze on urban housing - it's unlikely that the people living in Nelson and Holte Road are the owners of those houses and they'll want to find houses locally so that they don't have to uproot their lives - right now, the last thing Birmingham city council wants is to be seen to be knocking down good housing stock for the benefit of a football club and they'll be really averse to seeing some sad faced family on the front of the Birmingham Mail complaining about homelessness as a result.

I think we'd find it very difficult to get that one around the council.

 

Nah, you could actually make it pay. 

Knock down the fairly sprawling victorian terraces and build some higher density apartment blocks. May even be able to fit in more actual dwellings.  Most sports stadium developments seem to have apartment complexes around them now.  I know Aston is a bit different but they're putting up loads of apartment blocks in Perry Barr and it's well connected right on top of Witton Railway station just a short hop into town. 

May actually make money that way!   Or at least offset some of the costs. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by sidcow

[Lochheads twin]

46 minutes ago, thabucks said:

A quick check on zoopla and the average price of houses on Nelson Road and Holte Road is between £140k - £150k … Let’s be generous and say £200k and it’s around 40 houses from Google street view so approx £8million guesstimate - issue is they’ll have to all want to sell and without CPO’s that’ll be tricky 

Agreed.

We just need to approach as part of the bigger project. In the past we have been at loggerheads with the council. It certainly happened under previous  Villa leadership with both the Witton Lane and Holte developments. 

 

 

[Talldarkandransome]

2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I just went on a google stadium tour of some of the NFL teams on Google and some of the stadiums they have over there are just insane.

My personal favourites are:
The SOFI Stadium
US Bank Stadium
Lucas Oil Stadium
Allegiant Stadium

Unreal. 

The sad thing for me is I have no idea who plays at any of them

[DaveAV1]

I’ve always been staunchly against moving from Villa Park for all the obvious sentimental reasons. However looking at it with a purely cold hearted business head, a new stadium is the only sensible option. Starting on a fresh site means we can really build what we want/need. It would be considerably cheaper as far as the actual build is concerned and we wouldn’t have ultimately years of only having say 75% of our capacity. 
 

The increase in capacity is very important in enabling us to compete. We’ll probably never get the £ per head through the turnstiles as a London club but an extra 20k or more through the gates can’t be ignored. Starting from fresh makes that both achievable and achievable quickly. 
 

I’m not suggesting a plastic bowl. We’d need something as unique as Villa Park but something more fit for purpose for the next 100 years not the last. A statement for Aston Villa Football Club as we enter a new chapter and also for NSWE that can be significant for now as they take the club further upwards but will also be a legacy for them for a hundred years. A stadium that kids from all over the world dream of visiting and generations of Villa kids can proudly call their home. 
 

To leave Villa Park would be a wrench, but history is already written and won’t disappear. If we want to write more pages in our incredible book we need to make it happen not just hope it will happen. I’m not talking about selling our soul to the devil, I’m talking about holding our history in our hearts and building more history in a new home. Throughout our history we have often  been at the innovative front line. Let’s not let history hold us back but inspire us to an even greater future. UTV!!!  

[Tayls]

Soooo, what’s the solution here, we buy land outside of Aston and build a new stadium altogether? It sounds like we are very limited in what we can do where we are at the minute… not many positives? 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Tayls

[Talldarkandransome]

2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I’ve always been staunchly against moving from Villa Park for all the obvious sentimental reasons. However looking at it with a purely cold hearted business head, a new stadium is the only sensible option. Starting on a fresh site means we can really build what we want/need. It would be considerably cheaper as far as the actual build is concerned and we wouldn’t have ultimately years of only having say 75% of our capacity. 
 

The increase in capacity is very important in enabling us to compete. We’ll probably never get the £ per head through the turnstiles as a London club but an extra 20k or more through the gates can’t be ignored. Starting from fresh makes that both achievable and achievable quickly. 
 

I’m not suggesting a plastic bowl. We’d need something as unique as Villa Park but something more fit for purpose for the next 100 years not the last. A statement for Aston Villa Football Club as we enter a new chapter and also for NSWE that can be significant for now as they take the club further upwards but will also be a legacy for them for a hundred years. A stadium that kids from all over the world dream of visiting and generations of Villa kids can proudly call their home. 
 

To leave Villa Park would be a wrench, but history is already written and won’t disappear. If we want to write more pages in our incredible book we need to make it happen not just hope it will happen. I’m not talking about selling our soul to the devil, I’m talking about holding our history in our hearts and building more history in a new home. Throughout our history we have often  been at the innovative front line. Let’s not let history hold us back but inspire us to an even greater future. UTV!!!  

I'd rather have 50k rammed into a slightly cramped Villa Park then 65k tourists spread around a modern bowl with no.focal point like the Holte. 

It's just my opinion but we can't leave Villa Park, just wouldn't be the same. 

My Dad recommended the Holte to me and one day I'd like to recommend the Holte to my son, and not the South West Corner Pavillion section opposite the Costa Buffet Stand.

He just needs to get over his f ing dingle obsession first 

 

[sharkyvilla]

1 hour ago, thabucks said:

I would love to experience a game at SoFi - the oculus is ridiculous … 

In terms of stadia design, I alway liked the internal layout of the Hicks & Gillet binned plans for a new Anfield which were modern yet kept the separate stand identity, and was not just an identikit stadium. 
 

 

Tbh that's not far off what it'll look like with the new stands.  It's definitely the kind of thing I want for VP.

[DaveAV1]

4 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

I'd rather have 50k rammed into a slightly cramped Villa Park then 65k tourists spread around a modern bowl with no.focal point like the Holte. 

It's just my opinion but we can't leave Villa Park, just wouldn't be the same. 

My Dad recommended the Holte to me and one day I'd like to recommend the Holte to my son, and not the South West Corner Pavillion section opposite the Costa Buffet Stand.

He just needs to get over his f ing dingle obsession first 

 

I’m with you sentiment wise but I’m not saying a plastic bowl and we’re not after big numbers of tourists. What ever we build  be it at Villa Park or a new stadium, it’ll be rammed full of Villa fans not tourists. We must move forwards not be mired in sentiment while other clubs build bigger stadiums and move ahead of us. If the price of seeing a successful Villa for our kids and grandkids is moving house then it will be a price worth paying. Years of mid table, semi finals, the odd flirt with relegation at the home we built incredible history in, or a new home and new history for our kids to enjoy. I’ve been fortunate to see us win the league and the European cup. It’s over 25 years since we lifted a proper trophy. We need to progress for the youngsters sake, or we risk that one day the youngsters drift off elsewhere. 

[Tayls]

20 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

I'd rather have 50k rammed into a slightly cramped Villa Park then 65k tourists spread around a modern bowl with no.focal point like the Holte. 

It's just my opinion but we can't leave Villa Park, just wouldn't be the same. 

My Dad recommended the Holte to me and one day I'd like to recommend the Holte to my son, and not the South West Corner Pavillion section opposite the Costa Buffet Stand.

He just needs to get over his f ing dingle obsession first 

 

But, the Holte focal point can be ‘moved’ or ‘recreated’ at a new ground. It doesn’t have to be just a modern bowl. The Holte has changed many times over the years, so it’s not as if it is the same as it was originally. Granted, the only thing that that would be different is it’s location/postcode. 
Btw, im more for developing Villa park where it is, but im also not against a move altogether to allow for better transport links, modernisation, and a chance for Villa to generate more revenue. Let’s face it, football isn’t what it was, we don’t want to be left behind because of sentimental reasons. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Tayls

[Talldarkandransome]

1 minute ago, DaveAV1 said:

I’m with you sentiment wise but I’m not saying a plastic bowl and we’re not after big numbers of tourists. What ever we build  be it at Villa Park or a new stadium, it’ll be rammed full of Villa fans not tourists. We must move forwards not be mired in sentiment while other clubs build bigger stadiums and move ahead of us. If the price of seeing a successful Villa for our kids and grandkids is moving house then it will be a price worth paying. Years of mid table, semi finals, the odd flirt with relegation at the home we built incredible history in, or a new home and new history for our kids to enjoy. I’ve been fortunate to see us win the league and the European cup. It’s over 25 years since we lifted a proper trophy. We need to progress for the youngsters sake, or we risk that one day the youngsters drift off elsewhere. 

I can't argue with this. I'm just worried about having tickets sold to tourists on Leicester Square alongside theatre tickets, just like the Arsenal.

Mine isn't really sentimental, it's more some things shouldn't change. 

[Talldarkandransome]

2 minutes ago, Tayls said:

But, the Holte focal point can be ‘moved’ or ‘recreated’ at a new ground. It doesn’t have to be just a modern bowl. The Holte has changed many times over the years, so it’s not as if it is the same as it was originally. Granted, the only thing that that would be different is it’s location/postcode. 
Btw, im more for developing Villa park where it is, but im also not against a move altogether to allow for better transport links, modernisation, and a chance for Villa to generate more revenue. Let’s face it, football isn’t what it was, we don’t want to get left behind. 

I know I know, i haven't got over the change to seats yet. 

[Follyfoot]

6 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

I know I know, i haven't got over the change to seats yet. 

Nor should you be

[DaveAV1]

22 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

I know I know, i haven't got over the change to seats yet. 

The world keeps changing and as my wife will testify, I’m rarely keen to embrace much of the changes. But I have to accept that I need to be more flexible. I’m nearly 59 and I plan to be around for a good while yet so I occasionally try to get down with the kids to some extent and I realise the futility of adapting a King Canute mindset. We can take our memories with us and they should play a big role in the design brief if ever we do move.