Villa Park redevelopment

[mikeyjavfc]

Assuming the construction cost is really northwards of £100m it must be very hard to justify that outlay from the clubs perspective. Hard to see how we increase revenue to the extent that we cover the cost of the building works any time soon. Be interesting to see if any other stadium upgrade plans get off the ground in next couple of years with construction costs and inflation being what they are. 

[Lichfield Dean]

13 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Saw this crude mock up on Twitter, but seriously, how much better would VP be with the corners filled in? 

 

 

But wouldn't you have to demolish the existing North to build that anyway? Where has the goalpost structure gone?

[Delphinho123]

9 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said:

But wouldn't you have to demolish the existing North to build that anyway? Where has the goalpost structure gone?

I’ve moved the goalposts.

[cheltenham_villa]

6 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

The club doesn’t even own the stadium, I don’t see how we could incur any costs for upgrading it towards FFP, even interest on loans.

A good point. I suppose the clubs rent could increase but technically all other costs I assume are covered by the company that own the ground. 

[limpid]

13 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said:

A good point. I suppose the clubs rent could increase but technically all other costs I assume are covered by the company that own the ground. 

I'd expect the club to be compensated for the inconvenience of any building work performed by the landlord.

[Delphinho123]

38 minutes ago, limpid said:

I'd expect the club to be compensated for the inconvenience of any building work performed by the landlord.

Handsomely so. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

13 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I’ve moved the goalposts.

Classic Delphino 

[brommy]

15 hours ago, fruitvilla said:

It's not the payback time, it's whether the project makes money. The five years is a reflection of an aggressive rate of return ... it's probably about 15%.

I don't know how much the construction is going to cost say 100 million; what rate of return are you going to accept, bearing in mind a 20 million overrun or delay is not impossible. Like I said it is a conservative estimate. I would hope the senior management doesn't put the club at risk.

edit

plus it is not really five years as such ... the construction time and spending rate need to be factored in.

Already posted but while it's being discussed, just to add some perhaps comparable detail (in terms of both being large Premier League clubs), regarding anticipated financial return - Chelsea very recently rejected the expansion of Stamford Bridge as their payback period was 25 years with just a 2.8% annual growth over a 50 year period.

A significant difference from Villa Park was their cost per new seat was double the North Stand cost per new seat, but I also strongly expect Chelsea could charge around double for their tickets and hospitality.

[AvonVillain]

The only reasonable excuse for a delay in rebuilding the North Stand is the final placement of the King Unai statue!

[Stephen_Evans]

15 hours ago, Lichfield Dean said:

But wouldn't you have to demolish the existing North to build that anyway? Where has the goalpost structure gone?

It is possible to retain the existing north stand and build around it, adding a new roof.  This was essentially Ellis’s plan.

What is not possible is to build a completely new stand without demolishing the old stand at the very beginning. 

[cheltenham_villa]

This point could probably exist in many threads but something heck needs to consider I think is how best to spend the clubs finances. 

Invest in infrastructure and see a return over a ten year period. Invest in team matters and see that money potentially come back via increased TV revenues for higher places finishes. 

My guess is that this is behind the rebuild delays. Everything the club does points to trying to take advantage of a potential short term opportunity for success in what's been a relatively closed shop. 

While I also appreciate that stadium investment and player budgets sit on different parts of the balance sheet, I also can't really think of a single club that has taken on significant stadium investment without it coinciding with a delay in player purchases. 

[Lichfield Dean]

1 hour ago, Stephen_Evans said:

It is possible to retain the existing north stand and build around it, adding a new roof.  This was essentially Ellis’s plan.

What is not possible is to build a completely new stand without demolishing the old stand at the very beginning. 

Maybe to some degree, but that picture above looks like a whole new stand to me.

[villa89]

2 hours ago, AvonVillain said:

The only reasonable excuse for a delay in rebuilding the North Stand is the final placement of the King Unai statue!

I think the only reasonable excuse was whether we were going to call it the Salifou Stand or the Mathieu Berson End.

[The Fun Factory]

19 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Saw this crude mock up on Twitter, but seriously, how much better would VP be with the corners filled in? 

 

 

I seriously doubt it. The club has concluded that the stand is not fit for purpose since at least the late 2000s under 3 different ownerships. It would be pointless throwing money at it. Any infill of the corners whilst keeping the stand would require the roof to be taken off. If you are going to do that big piece of work you might as well flatten the thing. Again I would ask if Mr Heck has experienced a match at that stand since he has been with us. The lower tier was designed as a terrace, the executive boxes are very out of date and the upper tier concourse is a medium-sized corridor to serve about 4,000 people.

I still don't understand how the club is going to find 2-300 uplift in capacity without a new stand. The other 3 stands ar constrained by the Trinity and Witton roads, residential housing on the doug ellis side, and Aston Park on the Trinity side.  The lower holte corner to the trinity is right on the road and the other corner to the dough ellis is required for emergency services to get access to the pitch.

The other 2 corners are facing the North Stand. They could do a Rangers and lower the pitch and add seats, but surely that won't be cost-effective for literally just hundreds of seats. I seriously doubt any of this has been planned. It would surely require yet another application and the earliest it could be done would probably be summer 2025. The whole thing has been utterly baffling given on the same week we had serious movement on the development of Witton station which most of us thought was the sticking point.

[ejs1111]

The talk of adding 2000-3000 seats by reconfiguring the existing seats to me is utter bollocks.  The only potential areas are filling in the corners- and that is where many of the structural components are for each of the stands.  You cannot just remove those and fill with seats.  Not to mention in the FAB meeting Heck also mentioned the need to DOUBLE the number of ADA seating to over 200.  Where will that come from?  By REMOVING existing seats and putting in more platforms.  Everything coming out of Hecks mouth has been a complete lie.  

IMO Villa Park will see a REDUCED capacity in the coming seasons due to ADA requirements, not an increase.  Best case scenario- we are able to add seats in the corners to recover the lost seats due to ADA.  There will be no 2k-3k increase in capacity.  Heck is just telling people what he thinks they want to hear in an attempt to soften the blow of his decision to shut down the North Stand Expansion.

Last item- when all this negative news was brought out in the past few days...  did anyone confirm if the warehouse and club shop refurb/expansion were still going to happen?  Or did Heck scupper those as well?  He really is a Grinch- doing this all over the Christmas holiday!  haha-

[Captain_Townsend]

Well said. Also, things were going so well and Heck just deflates the whole vibe

Edited December 29, 2023 by Captain_Townsend

[Hank Scorpio]

1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said:

I seriously doubt it. The club has concluded that the stand is not fit for purpose since at least the late 2000s under 3 different ownerships. It would be pointless throwing money at it. Any infill of the corners whilst keeping the stand would require the roof to be taken off. If you are going to do that big piece of work you might as well flatten the thing. Again I would ask if Mr Heck has experienced a match at that stand since he has been with us. The lower tier was designed as a terrace, the executive boxes are very out of date and the upper tier concourse is a medium-sized corridor to serve about 4,000 people.

I still don't understand how the club is going to find 2-300 uplift in capacity without a new stand. The other 3 stands ar constrained by the Trinity and Witton roads, residential housing on the doug ellis side, and Aston Park on the Trinity side.  The lower holte corner to the trinity is right on the road and the other corner to the dough ellis is required for emergency services to get access to the pitch.

The other 2 corners are facing the North Stand. They could do a Rangers and lower the pitch and add seats, but surely that won't be cost-effective for literally just hundreds of seats. I seriously doubt any of this has been planned. It would surely require yet another application and the earliest it could be done would probably be summer 2025. The whole thing has been utterly baffling given on the same week we had serious movement on the development of Witton station which most of us thought was the sticking point.

I bet he hasn't set foot in the North stand. He has nonidea how shit it is. Yet he will put the prices up again next season.

[avfc1982am]

57 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I bet he hasn't set foot in the North stand. He has nonidea how shit it is. Yet he will put the prices up again next season.

All ST holders will be held to ransom next summer. I think the club will squeeze an awful lot more fans until they leave and free up seats for those with bigger wallets. 

[ender4]

2 hours ago, ejs1111 said:

Last item- when all this negative news was brought out in the past few days...  did anyone confirm if the warehouse and club shop refurb/expansion were still going to happen?  Or did Heck scupper those as well? 

Yes Heck confirmed that the warehouse is going ahead as a hospitality/corporate extra for those who are willing to pay for it. 

[The Fun Factory]

2 hours ago, ejs1111 said:

The talk of adding 2000-3000 seats by reconfiguring the existing seats to me is utter bollocks.  The only potential areas are filling in the corners- and that is where many of the structural components are for each of the stands.  You cannot just remove those and fill with seats.  Not to mention in the FAB meeting Heck also mentioned the need to DOUBLE the number of ADA seating to over 200.  Where will that come from?  By REMOVING existing seats and putting in more platforms.  Everything coming out of Hecks mouth has been a complete lie.  

IMO Villa Park will see a REDUCED capacity in the coming seasons due to ADA requirements, not an increase.  Best case scenario- we are able to add seats in the corners to recover the lost seats due to ADA.  There will be no 2k-3k increase in capacity.  Heck is just telling people what he thinks they want to hear in an attempt to soften the blow of his decision to shut down the North Stand Expansion.

Last item- when all this negative news was brought out in the past few days...  did anyone confirm if the warehouse and club shop refurb/expansion were still going to happen?  Or did Heck scupper those as well?  He really is a Grinch- doing this all over the Christmas holiday!  haha-

Sadly agree with you