Villa Park redevelopment

[dappadan]

Got too be honest from a completely personal point of view I am gutted by this. There will be many stories out there similar to mine but I gave my season ticket up 5 years ago when my son was born with epilepsy and couldn't really justify being too far away from home. As he is now growing older his condition has been under control for a year or so and we were hoping the stadium expansion would give us the opportunity to get back down Villa park regularly.

I can get the odd match tickets but there is nothing quite like the feeling I used to have as a kid opening up my season ticket yearly on my bday.

Anyway, as said it is a completely personal point of view but I imagine many other kids are missing that special Villa feeling. Which can't be helped but is a shame!

[Villa_Vids]

I don't feel satisified with Heck's answers about the changes in redevelopment. Something seems off.

[Chine]

I posted on here earlier in the year ( it would have been pre June for those who care to look  ) regarding this development planned . There has been some doubt about this going ahead since back then , there was issues over the crane availability and European football impact . 

[May-Z]

I imagine that if the original news a few years ago was "we're going to spend a lot to improve the facilities and concourses around the ground, as well as add a superstore and entertainment venue for 3000 fans" then we'd all be pretty happy.

We've all been tempted in by the idea of a shiny new stand and it now feels a disappointment to scale it back. However, the improvements across the whole ground are overdue and will be very welcomed. 

[david-avfc]

If the new upper holte is the reference point for what was planned then I think Heck is right to put a block on things - The Terrace View IMO massively missed the mark, it’s absolutely messed up the facilities in upper holte for most fans and I assume hasn’t been as popular as expected. The Villa Live thing also never made any sense, a huge cost which was never going to get the required footfall apart from a short window on match days. I think both raises questions on Purslow’s judgement on these types of development projects, which as far as I’m aware isn’t his area of expertise. You can’t green light a £100m infrastructure project if you’re not sure on the feasibility of it.

[bannedfromHandV]

Pretty deflating news to not be replacing the north stand, wonder how much the bankruptcy of Birmingham council has played a part in this (probably answered in the previous 20 pages but can’t be arsed to trawl through).

[sidcow]

26 minutes ago, david-avfc said:

If the new upper holte is the reference point for what was planned then I think Heck is right to put a block on things - The Terrace View IMO massively missed the mark, it’s absolutely messed up the facilities in upper holte for most fans and I assume hasn’t been as popular as expected. The Villa Live thing also never made any sense, a huge cost which was never going to get the required footfall apart from a short window on match days. I think both raises questions on Purslow’s judgement on these types of development projects, which as far as I’m aware isn’t his area of expertise. You can’t green light a £100m infrastructure project if you’re not sure on the feasibility of it.

In terms of odd takes, that's a pretty odd one. 

[fightoffyour]

5 hours ago, Lord Willard said:

Only if it’s in the city centre 

5 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

This presents somewhat of a problem

It's the Zulus stopping us drinking in town right?

[Avfc96]

It's the wrong decision. Whenever we've had momentum as a club and that hasn't happened often over a long period of time, we always seem to shoot ourselves in the foot and it's the reason why Villa Park is still in the state it is now and not had a major upgrade in 20 years.

The North Stand isn't fit for purpose, whether we are Champions League, Europa/Conference League, mid-table or fighting relegation. It wasn't fit for purpose when I went into my first game in there in October 2005 and it certainly isn't now.

The costs will only increase the further it goes on. It's the first big kick in the teeth of the NSWE regime. 

Man United- 72K

West Ham- 66K

Spurs- 62K

Liverpool- 61K

Arsenal- 60K

City- 54K but they're going to 60K+

Everton- 53K once their new stadium is completed

Newcastle- 52K

Sunderland- 49K

 

 

[ender4]

29 minutes ago, Avfc96 said:

It's the wrong decision. Whenever we've had momentum as a club and that hasn't happened often over a long period of time, we always seem to shoot ourselves in the foot and it's the reason why Villa Park is still in the state it is now and not had a major upgrade in 20 years.

The North Stand isn't fit for purpose, whether we are Champions League, Europa/Conference League, mid-table or fighting relegation. It wasn't fit for purpose when I went into my first game in there in October 2005 and it certainly isn't now.

The costs will only increase the further it goes on. It's the first big kick in the teeth of the NSWE regime. 

Man United- 72K

West Ham- 66K

Spurs- 62K

Liverpool- 61K

Arsenal- 60K

City- 54K but they're going to 60K+

Everton- 53K once their new stadium is completed

Newcastle- 52K

Sunderland- 49K

 

 

Yes even with the expansion we’d be mid-table in stadium size.

[david-avfc]

38 minutes ago, sidcow said:

In terms of odd takes, that's a pretty odd one. 

Why is it? There’s only 1 example of a recent redevelopment at villa park and the execution has been appalling. If you can’t get a small upgrade right then there’s not much hope of getting a much bigger and far more complex project right either. The original plans have been shitcanned for a reason, someone has looked at it and realised they weren’t good enough either economically, practically or probably both

[ender4]

1 hour ago, May-Z said:

I imagine that if the original news a few years ago was "we're going to spend a lot to improve the facilities and concourses around the ground, as well as add a superstore and entertainment venue for 3000 fans" then we'd all be pretty happy.

Thats not what he’s suggested in his video.
 

Whats he’s actually saying is a new area of 3000 hospitality spaces which will generate a lot more revenue per person.  A larger shop which will generate more revenue from each person.

No improvement in concourses or basic facilities in the ground for the ordinary fan, they don’t bring in enough revenue from the limited seats available.

When he says we already have enough space, he doesn’t mean for basic people on the waiting list, he means for the high spenders. 
 

[El Segundo]

I've just watched the video and I have to say I wouldn't trust this bloke as far as I could chuck America.  Actions speak louder than words. 

So much blather about how it's all about the fans, working with them, spending 6 months getting to know what they want, and getting the feel for the history of the club. 

But his actions so far have been to

1) turn the "refurbishment" of the Holte suite into a repurposing with paid for hospitality coupled with a reduction in season ticket  benefits. I don't know many fans who wanted that.

2) "Interpret" a survey question about whether the fans would like enhancements like better wifi, better food service, better toilets etc. to conclude that "the fans said they wanted a chargeable enhanced experience".  Making a chunk of Holte end seating and concourse unavailable to ordinary supporters in the process. And the rest of it worse than before.  Did many fans really want that?

3) Calling a halt to the stadium expansion so they can "explore alternatives that  benefit ALL fans not just one stand". What utter bollocks.  A bigger ground raises our profile, gets us more supporters in the ground, increases our revenue - it benefits us all, whether we are North Standers or not.  Treating it as a separate entity is nonsensical.  Are many fans agreeing with this?

By all means plan for a new stadium or nothing at all if it genuinely makes better commercial sense in the long run.   But at least have the balls and decency to be up front, transparent and honest about it.  Spare us  the shedload of patronising bullshit about it being all about us.  

[GeordieVillan]

Very interesting debate/speculation in this thread which has become more reasoned as the day has gone on…I think there is a few fundamental points that may be at work - 

1) cost vs benefit - the construction costs are so much higher now than when the project was originally floated, and the ROI just may not be anywhere near what was originally envisaged.

2) couple that with the ability to create more hospitality areas to boost existing revenues, and they may be able to bridge the gap without having to do too construction work.

3) the new TV deal may bring in a level of income beyond what was initially expected, so they can delay a stadium extension.

4) maybe there is a genuine feeling that if we make the champions league this season, which I don’t think was in our original plan, then it would be a shame if the stadium isn’t full capacity for the experience, and it may affect the team performance? At least in the first season of the champions league anyway. And also affect how the stadium is viewed on the big stage in big matches?

5)  even though the North Stand is outdated, maybe part of the “fortress” is retaining its current feel, and avoiding the “gentrification” of it?

6) transport issues as per other posts.

Fundamentally, the club and the owners have my faith right now, possibly more than any other owner ever before. I trust that if the stadium development has been shelved now, then it must be for the right reasons. I can’t fathom that they would get things so right on the pitch with Unai and this squad, and implement the background structure for the team so well, and then make a major miscalculation like this off the pitch like this. It just wouldn’t make sense. I’m very relaxed about this.

[HKP90]

Only one way this makes any sense. 

New stadium. 

I'd be horrified if we moved away from VP.

[Villa_Vids]

5 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Only one way this makes any sense. 

New stadium. 

I'd be horrified if we moved away from VP.

Possibly. Maybe that's why Heck is holding redevelopment off. But what will happen to the VP euro bid? it feels like we lied to get our stadium at EURO 2028. Hmm

[paul514]

It’s probably a gambit to get the transport partners to pull their finger out.

i honestly think the owners want to get this done

[Captain_Townsend]

Professional outfits don't do gambit of this nature.

 

It's just another Heck head scratcher of a decision lile the badge he binned off

[Wurzel]

1 hour ago, HKP90 said:

Only one way this makes any sense. 

New stadium. 

I'd be horrified if we moved away from VP.

I haven't really kept up with all this stuff, but that was the first thing that crossed my mind. Can I ask a question, does anybody know why this was announced today? Was just because it came up in an interview or was it planned?

Edited December 20, 2023 by Wurzel
More interesting question.

[DakotaVilla]

1 hour ago, Captain_Townsend said:

Professional outfits don't do gambit of this nature.

 

It's just another Heck head scratcher of a decision lile the badge he binned off

They absolutely do and this is straight out of the US ownership construct where local cities/mayors regularly fund large elements for their major sports teams. 

Very telling that Andy Street has not commented yet…..