Villa Park redevelopment

[ender4]

1 minute ago, Risso said:

Imagine what 10,000 extra fans could do to help with that, plus massively improved hospitality offerings in the North Stand. 

Heck’s bonus will be based on revenue increases in a 2 year timeframe. Building a new stand lowers revenue in the timeframe he’s interested in.

[Risso]

5 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Heck’s bonus will be based on revenue increases in a 2 year timeframe. Building a new stand lowers revenue in the timeframe he’s interested in.

How have you arrived at that fact, exactly? 

[DJBOB]

12 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

Although there are many obvious benefits to a new stadium, I don't believe that's the plan going forward, I'd imagine it's a last-case scenario option. You don't spend millions on an inner-city academy down the road, add loads of corporate areas to the stadium, double the size of the club shop, and develop the Warehouse stuff to then immediately uproot and move elsewhere. It just wouldn't make sense. That is not what we are looking at right now.

But transport is very much a big issue, you can spend as much as you want on the stadium and its facilities, but there's a finite amount of people you can reasonably get in and out of the area in a sensible amount of time, adding 10k more people to that has a big impact and would detract from the matchday experience for everyone. Transport into the area simply has to be improved if we want to grow, and that's where the bottleneck is. I don't think it's a lack of demand, it's a logistical problem that is not easily fixed. The landscape has changed regarding the council since Purslow originally drew up these plans, and how the situation evolves depends on how or what we can do to improve transport under this new landscape.

The new North Stand was going to add loads more corporate areas, which Heck absolutely wants, but there's no point adding more corporate if it's incredibly inconvenient to get to and from, it's hard to sell an 'experience' if you have to tell people to allow for multiple hours travel and waiting around.

Throw in that we are way ahead of schedule on the pitch, and now have more investment joining us, and it begins to make a bit more sense as to why we are having a pause and rethinking how we can best move forward. It may well still go ahead, we just have to be sure logistically it will work as intended so that the considerable investment has appropriate returns. 

If there really is no way forward in terms of improving the transport links, and we continue on our current trajectory, then somewhere down the line the new stadium idea would become a more viable option to break the impasse. The owners, up until now, have shown no interest in going against our traditions as a club, moving away from our home would be a huge breakaway from that, but if it stunts our growth and their investment, then it is only natural a move would at least come under consideration.

 

This is the most straightforward conclusion from a logistical perspective. 

The "Heck isn't doing the renovation because he wants to pad his resume" is evil villain mustachio'd kind of stuff. People at Heck's level aren't padding their CV. You think NWSE are going to be taken gullible by their President of Operations? This isn't XIa we're talking about here.

[The Fun Factory]

10 minutes ago, ender4 said:

The thing is that a new North stand completely makes sense in the long-term by any metric. 
 

However, Heck is here for 2-4 years, he has no interest in the long-term but just wants to quickly maximise revenue in the short term.  Typical American corporate (sorry to other non-corporate Americans here on VT).

..... and therefore what is the owners long term view? Get us regularly in the top 6 and sell up in the next 5-10 years when the next tv deal kicks in? Would be good return on investment.

[DCJonah]

**** me some odd posts. 

Could be top of the league at Christmas, look at our squad, manager and sporting director. Heck is highly rated in terms of what he's been hired for. 

How about a bit of trust. 

[Mic09]

I have a feeling that while the North Stand is not knocked down right now, we might have considered something of greater significance, i.e. massively renovation of Witton Lane with a bigger stand that will join a new North Stand. That's the dream.

If they do nothing for the next few years I will be angry, the stadium needs to be bigger.

But maybe Heck wants something better than just a new stand?

[flamingsombrero]

You know who else is supposedly in the market for a new stadium... ground share anyone? 

 

[ender4]

15 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Any coincidence that Atairos announcement and this was so close?

Dunno man, but Delphinhos senses are-a tinglin'. 

New stadium on the horizon. 

Not a chance.  Heck said they are going to double the size of the club shop into a megastore and also build/renovate The Warehouse to have space for 3,000 in hospitality options.  He's not going to do all that if we are going to move elsewhere. 

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

Its been binned because the current operational chief is interested in what he can boast about in his next interviews in 2-3 years time, and wants to talk about how he increased revenue rapidly via merchandising, ticket price hikes, hospitality sales and commercial sponsorships, and not how he lead a major construction project that only ate money during his tenure.

So do you think NSWE are stupid, have been conned, similarly aim to be out the door in 2-3 years, or simply aren't paying attention? 

We've got no idea why they've really made this decision, but Heck isn't just doing what the **** he likes for his own personal ambition, not unless you believe one of those things of NSWE.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Davkaus

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

**** me some odd posts. 

Could be top of the league at Christmas, look at our squad, manager and sporting director. Heck is highly rated in terms of what he's been hired for. 

How about a bit of trust. 

Flawed argument. So because others are doing well, that their credit should be used for Heck?  
Luiz, Martinez, Torres are playing quality therefore Olsen is quality is your argument.  All people are doing is judging him by his actions so far.  He deserves time to earn our trust but his actions to date don’t seem to be in line with his focus on fans first comments.

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Not a chance.  Heck said they are going to double the size of the club shop into a megastore and also build/renovate The Warehouse to have space for 3,000 in hospitality options.  He's not going to do all that if we are going to move elsewhere. 

Depends what they are going to do. It wouldn’t be a massive outlay relatively to do a lot of the things and could generate a decent revenue return.  As for the shop, a move of the ticket office and back office elsewhere and the shop to take over that area could double the shop size without much expense.

[Jas10]

Good not to get that hit in attendances/seats at this time… would be sad for fans to have to miss out on what is the club’s best time/era for decades… especially if we continue on this trajectory. 

Would be bad for thousands of fans to have to miss out on a CL campaign for example… And better for away fans to have to miss out rather than the regular home supporters…

There are so many problems and issues to sort out around the stadium as well as all the problems regarding travel. So many concerns and complaints to deal with… it’s a bit embarrassing for a club of our size and heritage. Every fan should have a positive experience at VP and walk away happy…

Maybe it’s best to sort everything else out and have a properly refurbished stadium with proper facilities (working and clean toilets would be a good start!) and a good experience for all fans and visitors before moving on to other work… build from a solid and satisfying base rather than create more disruption and disturbance by overlooking and foregoing the more immediate issues?

A clean, state of the art ground with everything working and operating well/smoothly is more important than making extra additions/expansions imo at least…

Improve the whole experience for ALL fans…

There will be a better or more suitable time to expand and I don’t think it’s going to be ruled out or ended… there are bigger immediate priorities really..

 

[flamingsombrero]

Does this impact our eligibility to host the Euro's?

[ender4]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Depends what they are going to do. It wouldn’t be a massive outlay relatively to do a lot of the things and could generate a decent revenue return.  As for the shop, a move of the ticket office and back office elsewhere and the shop to take over that area could double the shop size without much expense.

True. But as mentioned before, the easiest revenue raiser (like an extra £4.5m per year) would just be to get decent facilities to serve food and drink inside the stadium.  It can't cost much and the returns are huge.  But does Heck even know that we'd double our revenue if we could get served? Does he think this is what the current demand is inside the stadium for food and drink?

[Chindie]

Just now, Davkaus said:

So do you think NSWE are stupid, have been conned, similarly aim to be out the door in 2-3 years, or simply aren't paying attention? 

Not really any of the above.

I suspect they aren't completely married to the stadium expansion, it's a plan but not the plan they are absolutely set on. If I was them I would be chasing that expansion like a dog in heat, but I'm coming from a different direction with a different attachment to the club. They know the stadium expansion is a long term investment that initially will hurt us a little and probably doesn't see returns for a few seasons even after it's finished.

They will be open to anything that increases revenues, and particularly ones that do so quickly and with limited investment. This is Heck's thing. He's sold them on that being the plan, they've agreed, and the stadium gets shelved for *hand waves bullshit*.

I don't think NSWE are here until they die. They will have a view of getting out. Perhaps they aren't convinced the stadium will help them achieve the goals they want before they sell up and won't return enough to make it worthwhile in their view.

None of that means that not doing the expansion is, from a fans perspective and from a long (long long long) term perspective, good. But for shorter term, maybe it is.

[Lord Willard]

4 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I'm all for moving to a shiny new stadium personally. 

Only if it’s in the city centre 

[bcarpet]

Why would doubling the size of our club shop be a good thing? How many people really visit shops now a days? I do all my shopping online, including the bits I bought from the villa shop last month (which by the way wasn't a fantastic experience)

 

He's had a shocker so far for me

[stewiek2]

1 minute ago, Lord Willard said:

Only if it’s in the city centre 

That'll piss the noses off. Means we can go drinking in town...

 

Mate.

[Davkaus]

11 minutes ago, Chindie said:

 

They will be open to anything that increases revenues, and particularly ones that do so quickly and with limited investment. This is Heck's thing.

Interesting perspective, thanks.

I think the one thing we can all agree on, is that if we thought the price hikes of the last couple of seasons were a bit steep, we haven't seen anything yet. I dread to think how much people will be paying if they want a ST next year.

[Davkaus]

Just now, bcarpet said:

Why would doubling the size of our club shop be a good thing? How many people really visit shops now a days? I do all my shopping online, including the bits I bought from the villa shop last month (which by the way wasn't a fantastic experience)

 

He's had a shocker so far for me

I go in there about once every two years and think "how much, for that cheap looking tat?!?" and leave without buying anything, but I'm the kind of fan they don't really want, I turn up, maybe buy a pint, watch the game, and piss off out of there