andycv Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 7 minutes ago, sne said: Unpopular opinion perhaps but a stadium built in installments or rebuilt in different sections and eras is (almost) always going to be a bit of a Frankenstein's stadium. Some areas are not going to be fit for modern purposes and maybe even unsafe, and the service is gonna be lacking or at least difficult to get right. It's historic, charming and a important part of our identity, but it's also going to hold us back a bit when it comes to maximizing our revenue compared to what a new stadium or a complete rebuild likely would have. Owners seem fine with that trade off and so am I but the steps where we are now where they increase the price but not the quality of the experience (off the pitch) might sting a bit for some who are caught inbetween. Narrow concourses, poor services, not enough toilets and so on for a lot more money while another part of the stadium gets a spruce up. That's probably only OK as long as we keep winning. Anyway, will be interesting to see how it turns out. I don't actually agree with this - a significant part of phase 1 is modernising the Trinity Road Stand - and they do have plans for the Holte - so our existing infrastructure can be upgraded. The Doug Ellis is the one that is most difficult/unlikely to be fixable - due to the narrowness of the stand.... We will see what if anything they come up with for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 5, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: The lack of space isn't the issue, it is the transport network which the club has little control over. No amount of cpo's will change that. But the transport problems are only experiential - it may not be much fun getting away from Villa Park but planning permissions have been granted regardless. The transport problems aren't stopping us expanding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, andycv said: I don't actually agree with this - a significant part of phase 1 is modernising the Trinity Road Stand - and they do have plans for the Holte - so our existing infrastructure can be upgraded. The Doug Ellis is the one that is most difficult/unlikely to be fixable - due to the narrowness of the stand.... We will see what if anything they come up with for that! Yeah it can and will be upgraded, and if they get it right I'm sure it will be fine. Would be really impressed if it turns out as "good" as something built from scratch tho. If only becauase it has to be fitted into and integrated to already existing structures and their limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: The lack of space isn't the issue, it is the transport network which the club has little control over. No amount of cpo's will change that. To add to what OBE said above, the transport situation is better than most football stadiums around the country. The poor experience the transport situation lends itself to will also potentially solve itself if we host Euro 2028. Space is most definitely a major issue with respect to all standa bar the North, which is a big part of why they've started there first. That and it being the worst stand we had. Edited July 5, 2023 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Where would we play while it's knocked down and rebuilt? There's not a Wembley stadium just down the road for us to play at. Not to mention spurs could do most of their prep work next to their current stadium thanks to the space they had and only needed one season away. We'd need 2 full seasons away I'm sure. We're not knocking down villa park to stay on site. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLillis Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrBlack said: o add to what OBE said above, the transport situation is better than most football stadiums around the country For the Championship maybe but I don’t believe this with regards to the Premier League having spoken to many away fans in the queue for the train back to New Street from Witton. Londoners especially pissed off but then they are used to the tube service. I have no idea why we can’t have enough trains lined up to clear Witton and Aston Stations in a timely fashion. Does anyone know the reasons I’m sure there are plenty. Edited July 5, 2023 by MarkLillis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post maqroll Posted July 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2023 Villa Park is probably the consensus choice for top ground in English football by fans and players alike. It's in good condition and is a new North Stand away from being UEFA compliant. It is a heritage landmark that the entire country should be proud of. It transcends club affiliation. It should be redeveloped, not bulldozed. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 16 minutes ago, Caravella82 said: I'm still against this but not quite as vehemently as I was years ago as, Villa Park was irreparably damaged with the loss of the old Trinity Road stand. When I hear it said that VillaPark is 120+ years old it reminds me of Trigger's broom from Only fools and horses. It can't be the the same stadium. I agree with the comment posted on the last page that mentioned when stands are built in different decades with different ideas and different trends you end up with a patchwork stadium. That is what we've got now. While I agree there is character and charm in this, people can hope for something better. Problem is what is better to one fan might not be better to another. I'm not opposed to a new stadium, but if that stadium is not in Aston then I will oppose everything put forward. A Tottenham type build where the location doesn't change. If this has a design that represents a modernised version of the Old Trinity then I have to admit that I am intrigued by what a magnificent stadium we could have. They did the same argument at Roland Garros. In the end, they have completely rebuilt Chatrier but the court is on the same piece of land. You still have that continuity even if stands go. I mean the classic trinity stand was built nearly 30 years after we first moved to Villa Park. Even then we were looking towards the past when you compare the stands at Highbury a few years later lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravella82 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: They did the same argument at Roland Garros. In the end, they have completely rebuilt Chatrier but the court is on the same piece of land. You still have that continuity even if stands go. I mean the classic trinity stand was built nearly 30 years after we first moved to Villa Park. Even then we were looking towards the past when you compare the stands at Highbury a few years later lol Just watched a video of the Chatrier rebuild as I wasn't too familiar with it but the Wimbledon Centre court is a great example of modernisation mixed with history. I agree 100% on the same patch of land but I'm also torn with regards my dislike for the current the Trinity design (We were spoilt with what we once had as I believe only the Twin towers of old Wembley compared favourably to old Trinity), a terrible North stand and a cramped Witton lane stand. 3 stands to me that are not a great representation of just how special Villa park could be so I certainly think there is a conversation to be had with what we can do in the future. Trying not to go off topic but it's likely any new design would disappoint me. New Wembley and it's mess of high rise buildings that now surround it is awful. I hope Villa never take this path. Edited July 5, 2023 by Caravella82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 I'd hope that by Euro 28 we will have had a season or two in the Champions League, maybe by 2026/27 we will have looked at buying up the houses and moving the road to rebuild the DE stand. I still think that's the most obvious and cost-effective way of finishing the redevelopment. If we are still just hovering in the top 10 of the PL it might not be worth it. What happens with the next TV deal will be interesting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintpotvilla Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Villa Park IS Aston Villa It always has been and it always will be Remodel it slightly Yes Move away No never. It would never be the same club Villa Park is the very soul of the club. I would NEVER accept moving NEVER 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 I've been to a lot of away days at these new grounds, all of them are nice and modern but it's just a giant bowl with zero soul. Football is just turning into a toy for the rich. The owners, managers, players all change but Villa Park is the only connection we really have that ties it together. Most grounds aren't built in nice areas, are they trying to turn it into a place where people visit on a daily basis? That won't happen until we start consistently winning major honours, worry about that if we achieve it. If we leave Aston it doesn't make much sense to call us Aston Villa either. Wouldn't feel far off the Wimbledon/MK situation for me. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted July 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, maqroll said: Villa Park is probably the consensus choice for top ground in English football by fans and players alike. I think there are some very claret and blue tinted specs behind this claim. I'm sure there's consensus it's a "proper ground" and appeals to the traditional crowd. It's probably in the top half a dozen or so for that audience. But the consensus top, as in, number 1 stadium in the country? Come on now. I'd demolish every bit of it except for the Holte End without a second thought. Edited July 5, 2023 by Davkaus 3 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Fun Factory Posted July 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I think there are some very claret and blue tinted specs behind this claim. I'm sure there's consensus it's a "proper ground" and appeals to the traditional crowd. It's probably in the top half a dozen or so for that audience. But the consensus top, as in, number 1 stadium in the country? Come on now. I'd demolish every bit of it except for the Holte End without a second thought. Well no it isn't the best ground in the country, but is still rated highly by most away and neutral fans. There are so many identkit stadiums and Villa's setting and design makes it unique, even if stands come and go. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravella82 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I think there are some very claret and blue tinted specs behind this claim. I'm sure there's consensus it's a "proper ground" and appeals to the traditional crowd. It's probably in the top half a dozen or so for that audience. But the consensus top, as in, number 1 stadium in the country? Come on now. I'd demolish every bit of it except for the Holte End without a second thought. I wouldn't have put it has harshly as this but I do see your point. Villa Park has one stand of beauty and the same location it's had for over 100 years. That is what it has going for it. 2 nearby train stations, positive aspects of it's location, history, nostalgia and a good stand, and I love the place for it. Against. Two unsightly stands and one cramped stand and a difficult to regenerate area but move and any form of Nostalgia goes with it. If the North stand (Definitely can) and the Witton Lane (Debatable) ends can be expanded then we absolutely stay and redevelop. But there must be a long term plan for me. No more patchwork stands Edited July 5, 2023 by Caravella82 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted July 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2023 Sounds sensible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: I think there are some very claret and blue tinted specs behind this claim. I'm sure there's consensus it's a "proper ground" and appeals to the traditional crowd. It's probably in the top half a dozen or so for that audience. But the consensus top, as in, number 1 stadium in the country? Come on now. I'd demolish every bit of it except for the Holte End without a second thought. Kind of agree, it's a mixed bag The holte is great inside and out, easily one of the best and most iconic stands in English football The trinity is great inside and from the pitch view but horrible outside the ground The DE is OK from outside but it was horrible and dated inside the stand 10 years ago when I was last there, I doubt most away fans think it's a great modern stadium The north is horrible from the outside and I know they're trying to improve the insides but it's putting lipstick on a pig We also fail the PL disabled fan number thing Its a top 10 stadium which a fair few would put in their top 5 but I do think the holte and the aesthetics of the brick work do the heavy lifting 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rich192 Posted July 5, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2023 Just spoke to one of our guys who went. Headlines are: Work will begin the Monday after the Foo Fighters gig It will take two years, and they’ll only allow fans in when fully complete, they won’t open the lower tier early, for example Planning permission is expected to be given in October/November Witton Station is dependent on us winning the Euros, however the money will come from the government rather than the local council If the club continues to grow, there are plans to knock down the Witton Lane and make Villa Park a 60k stadium When they arrived at the club, they did look in to building a new ground elsewhere (in and around Bham), or ‘doing a Tottenham’, but that would’ve cost £1.5bn Think that was everything. This was all second hand, so any follow up questions I mightn’t be able to answer! I got sent some photos, but even one screenshot exceeded the size limit, so can’t attach them. 16 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, Rich192 said: Just spoke to one of our guys who went. Headlines are: Work will begin the Monday after the Foo Fighters gig It will take two years, and they’ll only allow fans in when fully complete, they won’t open the lower tier early, for example Planning permission is expected to be given in October/November Witton Station is dependent on us winning the Euros, however the money will come from the government rather than the local council If the club continues to grow, there are plans to knock down the Witton Lane and make Villa Park a 60k stadium When they arrived at the club, they did look in to building a new ground elsewhere (in and around Bham), or ‘doing a Tottenham’, but that would’ve cost £1.5bn Think that was everything. This was all second hand, so any follow up questions I mightn’t be able to answer! I got sent some photos, but even one screenshot exceeded the size limit, so can’t attach them. Love it!!! See, Witton Lane is possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted July 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, Rich192 said: Just spoke to one of our guys who went. Headlines are: Work will begin the Monday after the Foo Fighters gig It will take two years, and they’ll only allow fans in when fully complete, they won’t open the lower tier early, for example Planning permission is expected to be given in October/November Witton Station is dependent on us winning the Euros, however the money will come from the government rather than the local council If the club continues to grow, there are plans to knock down the Witton Lane and make Villa Park a 60k stadium When they arrived at the club, they did look in to building a new ground elsewhere (in and around Bham), or ‘doing a Tottenham’, but that would’ve cost £1.5bn Think that was everything. This was all second hand, so any follow up questions I mightn’t be able to answer! I got sent some photos, but even one screenshot exceeded the size limit, so can’t attach them. Thanks for the info. Interesting stuff. Good to hear a timescale for after Foo Fighters. For the pic try using imggb.com - upload them there and use the BBCode full linked (no Kenneth please) and it’ll make it easier to upload them here then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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