Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[peterms]

54 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Very well seemingly.

Are you basing that on anything objective you can link to?  I can't find much at all, and what is easily findable contradicts some of the claims made by him or on his behalf.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

 

11 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Are some fans seriously blaming the owner for appointment a Champions League winning manager, backing him in the transfer market and then sacking him and making a change when things clearly aren't working? Hmmmmm.

Yes. I don't believe that RDM was the best candidate we could have possibly got at the time. If people do then fine, but some of us don't. 

He won the CL (although a lot of people in the RDM thread claim it was the senior Chelsea players), but for us he turned out to be a shocking appointment. As many suspected from day one, he was the wrong man for this club, and so it came to pass. 

Owners usually take responsibility for failed managerial appointments and this one was shockingly bad. 

That the owner backed him doesn't mean a lot. We've seen it before where a manager has been let loose and unguided in the transfer market and then not spent it wisely. The same has happened again. Any rich fool can give any idiot millions of pounds to spend, but it should be done in a reasoned and measured way; with thought on squad balance, how the players are going to fit a certain system/s, how much is being spent in key areas and so on. I think we needed to spend more/use more of the budget on the midfield and central defence. My opinion of course.

I thought we had a structure in place to ensure that money was spent wisely and the squad was built and prepared carefully. Maybe not. 

This this is perhaps why some of us are disappointed so far. It's probably a hang over from the Lerner days. It's nothing personal against Tony, but it stems from concerns that mistakes are being made. Mistakes that we've seen before. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[Tommo_b]

18 minutes ago, peterms said:

Are you basing that on anything objective you can link to?  I can't find much at all, and what is easily findable contradicts some of the claims made by him or on his behalf.

The fact he has bought an established football club and then bank rolled it with 50 million would suggest he's been pretty handy in business negotiations in the past, wether they were above board or not I do not know. 

There is a lot of contradiction I'll admit that, but I'd love to have accumulated his spending power through business deals, I'd have spent a damn sight more then 50 million last transfer window. 

[Tommo_b]

2 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

 

Yes. I don't believe that RDM was the best candidate we could have possibly got at the time. If people do then fine, but some of us don't. 

He won the CL (although a lot of people in the RDM thread claim it was the senior Chelsea players), but for us he turned out to be a shocking appointment. As many suspected from day one, he was the wrong man for this club, and so it came to pass. 

Owners usually take responsibility for failed managerial appointments and this one was shockingly bad. 

That the owner backed him doesn't mean a lot. We've seen it before where a manager has been let loose and unguided in the transfer market and then not spent it wisely. The same has happened again. Any rich fool can give any idiot millions of pounds to spend, but it should be done in a reasoned and measured way; with thought on squad balance, how the players are going to fit a certain system/s, how much is being spent in key areas and so on. I think we needed to spend more/use more of the budget on the midfield and central defence. My opinion of course.

I thought we had a structure in place to ensure that money was spent wisely and the squad was built and prepared carefully. 

This this is perhaps why some of us are disappointed so far. It's probably a hang over from the Lerner days. It's nothing personal against Tony, but it stems from concerns that mistakes are being made. Mistakes that we've seen before. 

I genuinely think RDM and Tony thought gueye was going to be here this season not realising he had a minimum fee release clause, once he got sold it was a made scramble to find another midfielder, but it never materialised. 

Thats what I think happened. 

[peterms]

Some clubs have funded things through the personal wealth of the owners, some through sound business planning, some through crazy amd ruinous loans which they have loaded on the club.  I get the impression lots of people assume in this case it's the former, but his company makes a loss and he's not to be found on rich lists of personal wealth.  So I'm interested in hearing a bit more about the position.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

8 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

I genuinely think RDM and Tony thought gueye was going to be here this season not realising he had a minimum fee release clause, once he got sold it was a made scramble to find another midfielder, but it never materialised. 

Thats what I think happened. 

Give them a bit more credit, surely they're not that inept.

[Villarocker]

I really don't know if there is anything that we could blame Dr Xia for since he came in. I thought his management team selection seemed pretty ambitious despite the fact I wasn't a fan of Di Matteo - solely because he spoilt my day at Wembley in 2000. 

I like the communication between Dr Xia and the fans and enjoy the way he won't allow anyone to say anything bad about the Villa. 

I like his investment in the playing side and don't blame him for the players we have as his job was to bankroll the signings and not choose them. Bear in mind the times he said that he got RDM's choices for him. Dr Xia trusted that by getting the players the manager wanted everything else should fall into place on the pitch. That may still be the case and time will only tell if the owners' player investment has been worthwhile. I have faith in Dr Xia that, if the new manager says that x, y, Z isn't working and he needs to buy additions, the owner will go and get them for him. 

It's Dr Xia's baby now and we need to trust and support him to do the right thing. I do. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

50 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

 

Yes. I don't believe that RDM was the best candidate we could have possibly got at the time. If people do then fine, but some of us don't. 

He won the CL (although a lot of people in the RDM thread claim it was the senior Chelsea players), but for us he turned out to be a shocking appointment. As many suspected from day one, he was the wrong man for this club, and so it came to pass. 

Owners usually take responsibility for failed managerial appointments and this one was shockingly bad. 

That the owner backed him doesn't mean a lot. We've seen it before where a manager has been let loose and unguided in the transfer market and then not spent it wisely. The same has happened again. Any rich fool can give any idiot millions of pounds to spend, but it should be done in a reasoned and measured way; with thought on squad balance, how the players are going to fit a certain system/s, how much is being spent in key areas and so on. I think we needed to spend more/use more of the budget on the midfield and central defence. My opinion of course.

I thought we had a structure in place to ensure that money was spent wisely and the squad was built and prepared carefully. Maybe not. 

This this is perhaps why some of us are disappointed so far. It's probably a hang over from the Lerner days. It's nothing personal against Tony, but it stems from concerns that mistakes are being made. Mistakes that we've seen before. 

But he has taken responsibility and moved swiftly to resolve the issue.  

Out of interest who was the best candidate at the time?  did you honestly think players like Gardner and Westwood would look so out of their depth in this league? Did you think Elphick would be out of shape and make mistake after mistake. Did you think Jedinak would look like he was running in cement? Did you think we could have created the most chances in the league yet sat 19th?

if you saw all this then fair play to you. I honestly though we were going to blitz teams and had we taken chances in games we would have done so and would be having a different conversation. 

[TrentVilla]

9 hours ago, terrytini said:

I was wondering that..........probably doesn't pay to over think his tweets (I'm pretty sure he doesn't !).but that does read as if in some way CLubs were prematurely aware of our targets ?  He may well not mean that at all though !

I took it to mean a reference to the mess of the Hernandez deal.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

10 hours ago, Richard said:

Why, did he divulge the short lists in the summer then ?

Christ.

I don't know. Ask him. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

6 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Indeed. You wonder how his business negotiations go.

Terribly. Clearly. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

It was said in the summer "I hope he learns from this". Now he's saying "I've learned from that I won't do it again". 

Does it need dissecting? Can you not just say fair play to the man?

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, peterms said:

Some clubs have funded things through the personal wealth of the owners, some through sound business planning, some through crazy amd ruinous loans which they have loaded on the club.  I get the impression lots of people assume in this case it's the former, but his company makes a loss and he's not to be found on rich lists of personal wealth.  So I'm interested in hearing a bit more about the position.

You raise a good point here and it may be one that many of us have chosen to turn a blind eye to. We don’t know do we and we won’t know perhaps until the clubs accounts come out.

Fans of clubs are pretty superficial really. Owner is spending a few quid, saying the right things, and we trust them all the time perhaps blissfully unaware that there is a huge shit storm potentially further along the road.

There is still plenty we don’t know about Xia.

Edited October 6, 2016 by markavfc40

[allani]

@Morley_crosses_to_Withe - I'm genuinely intrigued by this statement: "Yes. I don't believe that RDM was the best candidate we could have possibly got at the time. If people do then fine, but some of us don't." 

Lerner (who was chairman of the board at the time the process started) arranged for a group of people to provide a shortlist of candidates - which seem to have come down to 3 options - RDM, Pearson and Moyes (who then ruled himself out for whatever reason).  At this point Xia completed the takeover and despite Lerner's guys suggesting that Pearson was their preferred option - he went for RDM.  We don't know the reason why - could simply be a different set of priorities (as per previous post).  So when he took over the club - he "only" had a choice of 2 candidates.  Derby's struggles suggest that Pearson was probably not the best candidate either.  Of course it is possible that Pearson could have us top of the table but I am not convinced.  His other option would be to have completely ignored the work that the group of "experts" had done and start the process again (although at that stage he hadn't appointed his CEO or DOF).  In which case it is highly unlikely that we would have got a manager in much before the start of the season - or if we wanted a "football man" to make the decision until towards the end of September (as DOF couldn't start before 1st September). 

I just don't know what you are saying Xia should have done?  I'm sure he would have loved for the takeover to be agreed in March, ratified in April and completed by the end of last season so that he had the most amount of time possible to re-organise. If that had been the case then I am sure that we would have ended up with other candidates being considered (although that is admittedly speculation on my part) and could have ended up with a better candidate.  But that isn't what happened and he didn't have much time available to make an appointment.  I just think that blaming Xia when the shortlist was compiled by Lerner's appointments is harsh - maybe that is why he went for RDM instead of Pearson (i.e. if it had worked he then had bragging rights that he didn't go for the same manager that Lerner would have appointed).  I don't think that was the case though - different priorities yes and probably a more "international" name.

Maybe my recollection of date and processes is wrong - in which case I am more than happy to be corrected.  But it feels harsh to blame Xia for the fact that we weren't considering the type of managerial candidates that I suspect you and I both really wanted.  I just think that Lerner's influence was still evident during the process as if the takeover had collapsed or not been ratified then Lerner would have been left picking up the tab.  Of course had RDM been a massive success I am not sure that I would be so adamant that maybe Lerner should get the credit (although actually I think most people at the time gave HDE some cudos for hiring MON - even though it was clear that he was appointed for RL taking over) - although RL would never have backed him as much in the transfer window...

Even this appointment is going to be tough - due to our current position, the length of time until the transfer window, the fact that the new manager is inheriting a pretty unbalanced squad with some massive gaps in appropriate players is key positions (central defence, central midfield being key), etc.  It is also early in the season for potential candidates who might have got off to a good start and be well above where their team will finish at the end of the season.  I am not convinced that who we sign now will be the manager we start next season with.  And again I don't think that if that is the case that it will necessarily be Xia's fault.  If we do go into next season with a new manager (signed at the end of this season) then there can be no excuse for not getting that right as they will have had 3-4 months to prepare.

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Christ.

I don't know. Ask him. 

 

2 hours ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

 

Yes. I don't believe that RDM was the best candidate we could have possibly got at the time. If people do then fine, but some of us don't. 

He won the CL (although a lot of people in the RDM thread claim it was the senior Chelsea players), but for us he turned out to be a shocking appointment. As many suspected from day one, he was the wrong man for this club, and so it came to pass. 

Owners usually take responsibility for failed managerial appointments and this one was shockingly bad. 

That the owner backed him doesn't mean a lot. We've seen it before where a manager has been let loose and unguided in the transfer market and then not spent it wisely. The same has happened again. Any rich fool can give any idiot millions of pounds to spend, but it should be done in a reasoned and measured way; with thought on squad balance, how the players are going to fit a certain system/s, how much is being spent in key areas and so on. I think we needed to spend more/use more of the budget on the midfield and central defence. My opinion of course.

I thought we had a structure in place to ensure that money was spent wisely and the squad was built and prepared carefully. Maybe not. 

This this is perhaps why some of us are disappointed so far. It's probably a hang over from the Lerner days. It's nothing personal against Tony, but it stems from concerns that mistakes are being made. Mistakes that we've seen before. 

After 6 years of utter demise we have panicked to get back to the promised land with all the Revenue it brings.....and snap decisions have been made.

We have appointed managers who are mainly attuned to spending money and we have over spent it on players that other managers would have had time to negotiate a sensible fee.

We look at Idrissa Gueye with envy and marvel at his transformation....but he was not the right player for us at the time and I still believe he isn't, despite my appreciation of his work at Everton......These players thrive with whats around them.

We have a team full of players who want the next man to do it for them.

I'm reluctant to blame a guy who has had a go for us( Dr Tone)......We are changing too many players in one go and that alone brings its problems.

If Gary Rowett was manager he may buy the same players for us as he does at blues.....but just pay more money for them, why, because he has no time to fanny around, with us its easier.....and because he can.

We are in a race against time and I think that is proving to be a difficult challenge.

[allani]

2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

You raise a good point here and it may be one that many of us have chosen to turn a blind eye to. We don’t know do we and we won’t know perhaps until the clubs accounts come out.

Fans of clubs are pretty superficial really. Owner is spending a few quid, saying the right things, and we trust them all the time perhaps blissfully unaware that there is a huge shit storm potentially further along the road.

There is still plenty we don’t know about Xia.

I don't think the club account's will help.  If there is no debt then I'm sure people will still say that the debt lies somewhere else in his empire and is being hidden - and who know they may well be right.  Accounts are rarely a statement of truth and more an exercise in painting whatever picture is needed to justify their shareholder payouts, tax commitments, achievement of fiscal targets, etc and being able to justify that to any auditers / regulators who might be interested.

[allani]

@TRO "we have over spent it on players that other managers would have had time to negotiate a sensible fee."  Not sure that it was just time - I think it was clear to most people that we needed to strengthen and so we were always going to be entering a negotiation slightly on the back foot. 

I'm not actually too worried about whether we over-spent or not (at the moment that is Xia's problem - although at some point it may become ours again) - it's more that we seemed to take my approach to transfers in Football Manager of bidding for everyone that looks any good, signing the first deals to be done and then suddenly looking up and realising that I've just bought 4 left sided midfielders when my striker is out for the season, my keeper has just retired and my right back has just moved on a free to Spain.  Oh and now my captain is p1$$ed off because Barcelona have tried to sign him on deadline day.

[TRO]

Its the football that has got us in to this mess and its the football that will have to get us out.

The Financial side is what it is and you drive yourself round and round in circles with it and still find no answers.

My priority, for me.....is to see us do the things that may enhance our chances of winning a game.....like closing the ball down, standing up to an opponent physically and imposing ourselves, keeping our shape at crucial times, winning headers at set pieces , dominating the opposition.

Those are the things I will be looking out for in the next changes..........All the stuff that doesn't cost any money.

We are the laughing stock of football, because we are spending millions and millions of pounds on players that are having little or no effect on our progress.

We spend like we are Liverpool and play like we are Leyton Orient.

Edited October 6, 2016 by TRO

[Neil]

11 hours ago, Richard said:

Why, did he divulge the short lists in the summer then ?

I guess that would be the mistake he's learning from...

[peterms]

27 minutes ago, allani said:

I don't think the club account's will help.  If there is no debt then I'm sure people will still say that the debt lies somewhere else in his empire and is being hidden - and who know they may well be right.  Accounts are rarely a statement of truth and more an exercise in painting whatever picture is needed to justify their shareholder payouts, tax commitments, achievement of fiscal targets, etc and being able to justify that to any auditers / regulators who might be interested.

Yes.

The Chinese connection introduces two other uncertainties.  One is that there's reportedly a lot of dodgy loans being made in China at the moment, often circumventing attempts to rein in the amount of lending that's going on.  Lots of articles appearing in recent months, expressing concern about impending trouble because of this, with many people standing to lose.  The other is the role of the Chinese government in encouraging purchases of foreign clubs.  I've no idea whether either of those things has any bearing on our financial arrangements.  Some openness and transparency about where the money is coming from would be welcome.  I won't hold my breath.