blandy Posted October 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 5, 2016 9 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: had he been willing to move house RDM would have been offered a job in the Premier League at some point. Possibly, maybe somewhere like Hull or wherever. But it's OT, really. I get the feeling that Dr X picked him (despite suggestions of other names by his advisers) because of his profile. I hope this time that the selection Dr X makes is based solely around an assessment of footballing knowledge and suitability for Villa rather than "a name" that would be/is recognisable internationally. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vive_La_Villa Posted October 5, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted October 5, 2016 Are some fans seriously blaming the owner for appointment a Champions League winning manager, backing him in the transfer market and then sacking him and making a change when things clearly aren't working? Hmmmmm. 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 46 minutes ago, blandy said: Possibly, maybe somewhere like Hull or wherever. But it's OT, really. I get the feeling that Dr X picked him (despite suggestions of other names by his advisers) because of his profile. I hope this time that the selection Dr X makes is based solely around an assessment of footballing knowledge and suitability for Villa rather than "a name" that would be/is recognisable internationally. I get where you're coming from. However also factor in Steve Clarke, one of the most respected coaches in the game and you've got yourself a potentially formidably duo. As the man himself said, at such short notice his options were limited somewhat. As I said, on paper I thought they did well. I thought it was coup. So did many of the outsiders I spoke to. It's all a bit moot now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Are some fans seriously blaming the owner for appointment a Champions League winning manager, backing him in the transfer market and then sacking him and making a change when things clearly aren't working? Hmmmmm. Are you suggesting the owner should be exempted from responsibility for what happens in his club, particularly when he has made such a public point of being its figurehead? If so, I'd be interested to know who should take the rap for our false start to the season. It was made fairly clear at the time that Xia had insisted on appointing Di Matteo against the advice of his more football-savvy advisers and he established an impression via Twitter of close involvement in the recruitment process so, yes, he shares responsibility for the poor start. it is encouraging however that he acted so quickly on his mistakes and, as noted above, he seems to be getting a bit less stupid about what he tweets. If he keeps his head down and listens more to his football advisers, redemption is hopefully not far off. Edited October 5, 2016 by briny_ear 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Are you suggesting the owner should be exempted from responsibility for what happens in his club, particularly when he has made such a public point of being its figurehead? If so, I'd be interested to know who should take the rap for our false start to the season. It was made failrly clear at the time that Xia had insisted on appointing Di Matteo against the advice of his more football-savvy advisers and he established an impression via Twitter of close involvement in the recruitment process so, yes, he shares responsibility for the poor start. it is encouraging however that he acted so quickly on his mistakes and, as noted above, he seems to be getting a bit less stupid about what he tweets. If he keeps his head down and listens more to his football advisers, redemption is hopefully not far off. I've so grateful he is not Lerner I would prefer to praise the fact he as acted quickly rather than focus on blame for the appointment. Where was it made clear that Xia appointed Di Matteo against the advice of football advisors? I never saw that! The manager has to take the rap and that is exactly what has happened because he has lost his job! If Xia kept RDM for the whole season and we failed miserably than at that point I would blame the owner. Edited October 5, 2016 by Vive_La_Villa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I won't blame Xia for RDM for the same reason I wouldn't blame Lerner for Lambert or Houllier. On paper they looked like good appointments. Xia gets credit for swinging the axe within weeks of it being obvious there was a problem, whereas Lerner waited a good year+ when it was obvious Lambert was waiting to be put out of his misery. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, blandy said: Possibly, maybe somewhere like Hull or wherever. But it's OT, really. I get the feeling that Dr X picked him (despite suggestions of other names by his advisers) because of his profile. I hope this time that the selection Dr X makes is based solely around an assessment of footballing knowledge and suitability for Villa rather than "a name" that would be/is recognisable internationally. I suspect he will want a `name'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I won't blame Xia for RDM for the same reason I wouldn't blame Lerner for Lambert or Houllier. On paper they looked like good appointments. Xia gets credit for swinging the axe within weeks of it being obvious there was a problem, whereas Lerner waited a good year+ when it was obvious Lambert was waiting to be put out of his misery. Exactly. Harsh to blame Xia for appointing RDM and backing him. The thing is had we taken all those chances in the first few games we would now be sitting pretty in the league, team would be full of confidence and RDM will still be in a job. Fine line between success and failure in this game. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Are you suggesting the owner should be exempted from responsibility for what happens in his club, particularly when he has made such a public point of being its figurehead? If so, I'd be interested to know who should take the rap for our false start to the season. It was made fairly clear at the time that Xia had insisted on appointing Di Matteo against the advice of his more football-savvy advisers and he established an impression via Twitter of close involvement in the recruitment process so, yes, he shares responsibility for the poor start. it is encouraging however that he acted so quickly on his mistakes and, as noted above, he seems to be getting a bit less stupid about what he tweets. If he keeps his head down and listens more to his football advisers, redemption is hopefully not far off. Again I could genuinely be forgetting a key point here - but wasn't the only person who said that the preferred choice wasn't RDM Hollis? If so then a couple of things strike me: (1) Hollis is not a football man and never pretended that he was - although there were other people involved in the process who were (although I don't think we know who the football people preferred and just assume that Hollis was taking about a unanimous preference of the "committee") and (2) Hollis and the others were not appointed by Xia and so their preference might have been influenced by other conditions that the guy who did hire them had - even after he'd left (that Xia didn't). Maybe their preference was Pearson because he wanted a lower salary / was prepared to work with a smaller transfer kitty than RDM was - which was No 1 priority given to them by Lerner - but Xia didn't think that this mattered as he was prepared to spend more money on the manager and players and so had a different priority. If that were the case - then the decision making is less about ignoring the advice of other people and more about a different application of what the priorities should be? All complete conjecture on my behalf admittedly!! I'm just not sure that we can read too much into what advice Xia may or may not have ignored and / or why he ignored it (if did in fact do so). I would be much more worried if he appoints our next manager "against the advice" of his team - as then something really has gone wrong given that this time around he would have appointed them and hopefully agreed on the priorities with them up front! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 58 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Are you suggesting the owner should be exempted from responsibility for what happens in his club, particularly when he has made such a public point of being its figurehead? If so, I'd be interested to know who should take the rap for our false start to the season. It was made fairly clear at the time that Xia had insisted on appointing Di Matteo against the advice of his more football-savvy advisers and he established an impression via Twitter of close involvement in the recruitment process so, yes, he shares responsibility for the poor start. it is encouraging however that he acted so quickly on his mistakes and, as noted above, he seems to be getting a bit less stupid about what he tweets. If he keeps his head down and listens more to his football advisers, redemption is hopefully not far off. I never saw anything about that ? Any links ? Very interesting if so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 A lot of criticism of RDM, but on paper he ticked all the boxes for what a new owner would want, can't really blame Xia for appointing him, I hadn't even considered him and was all for Pearson, but I warmed to the idea and was genuinely excited about the appointment of RDM in the end as I bought into it, as I'm sure xia did. I was so ready for RDM to become a Villa managerial hero, gutting it didn't work out anywhere near that, now just hope the next guy is.... just hope it's not Bruce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Talking about somebody asking to see the manager shortlist... Some people were worried he wouldn't learn from his mistakes. Turns out he's quite a fast learner. Quite bizarre that it was something that he had to learn at all, though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 19 minutes ago, terrytini said: I never saw anything about that ? Any links ? Very interesting if so. Looks like I'm not the only person that missed this. Would be very interested to hear more about this too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 35 minutes ago, allani said: Again I could genuinely be forgetting a key point here - but wasn't the only person who said that the preferred choice wasn't RDM Hollis? If so then a couple of things strike me: (1) Hollis is not a football man and never pretended that he was - although there were other people involved in the process who were (although I don't think we know who the football people preferred and just assume that Hollis was taking about a unanimous preference of the "committee") and (2) Hollis and the others were not appointed by Xia and so their preference might have been influenced by other conditions that the guy who did hire them had - even after he'd left (that Xia didn't). Maybe their preference was Pearson because he wanted a lower salary / was prepared to work with a smaller transfer kitty than RDM was - which was No 1 priority given to them by Lerner - but Xia didn't think that this mattered as he was prepared to spend more money on the manager and players and so had a different priority. If that were the case - then the decision making is less about ignoring the advice of other people and more about a different application of what the priorities should be? All complete conjecture on my behalf admittedly!! I'm just not sure that we can read too much into what advice Xia may or may not have ignored and / or why he ignored it (if did in fact do so). I would be much more worried if he appoints our next manager "against the advice" of his team - as then something really has gone wrong given that this time around he would have appointed them and hopefully agreed on the priorities with them up front! Well if he went against advisors by not appointing Pearson, look how that turned out for Derby. The same people blaming Xia for appointment RDM would now be blaming him for Pearson. I can imagine it now. 'Why did he listen to Hollis? why did he appoint a nutter? why am I bald? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 14 minutes ago, peterms said: Quite bizarre that it was something that he had to learn at all, though. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Talking about somebody asking to see the manager shortlist... Some people were worried he wouldn't learn from his mistakes. Turns out he's quite a fast learner. Why, did he divulge the short lists in the summer then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Richard said: Why, did he divulge the short lists in the summer then ? I was wondering that..........probably doesn't pay to over think his tweets (I'm pretty sure he doesn't !).but that does read as if in some way CLubs were prematurely aware of our targets ? He may well not mean that at all though ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 5 hours ago, terrytini said: I never saw anything about that ? Any links ? Very interesting if so. Can't do a link as I still haven't learnt how to quote stuff from my iPhone but have a look at the daily telegraph for 26 May 2016 and also a fuller, more gossipy, account on myoldmansaid of the same date. Mr Google will guide you to both quite easily. Will do full links if I remember tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 5 hours ago, peterms said: Quite bizarre that it was something that he had to learn at all, though. Indeed. You wonder how his business negotiations go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 3 hours ago, briny_ear said: Indeed. You wonder how his business negotiations go. Very well seemingly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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