Villarocker Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Having an owner that was active around the workplace might just have inspired the players a bit more. Still, they get well paid and should definitely try harder and compete. The defenders are indefensible in my opinion. Pub players would do better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Woodytom said: Mind blowing that you come to that conclusion. Absolutely mind blowing. What is it about lucrative contracts and top of the range facilities that constitutes being beaten with a blunt instrument? I think you are entirely missing the point. Do you not think that despite problems off the field the players could have give more and made us more competitive? I certainly do. It's like you excuse a lack of effort because randy Lerner doesn't want to spend a fortune....... It's madness. Our facilities, FYI, are no longer "top of the range". They were a decade ago. That's not to say that they are dilapidated of course, but I hear they could do with sprucing up. Unfortunately I do not have a source for that. The players could definitely show more desire, more professional pride. They are a disgrace to the shirt and the famous name of Aston Villa. However, all roads lead back to both the recruitment policy that bought them here, without doing the fullest of research into their personalities, and an owner who at no point over the last 6 years has provided anything like the financial backing or policy and ethos to breed a winning mentality at the club. Poor decision after poor decision, mistake after mistake. Everything he has done has lead us to this moment. They should all, top to bottom, be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Effort has been one thing, very few of our players give 100%, but it's the being brave aspect I can't stomach. If you see a pass, try it, going backwards will only lose us the ball anyway. We spend so much time dawdling and missing opportunities and it's why we're impotent up front and constantly on the back foot in defence. Watching Gil offer himself for a pass, or Ayew making a run seems pointless. If a pass if made (10% of the time) nobody supports to either make a run or play short, and when a pass isn't made (90% of the time) that player usually plays 'pass the responsibility'. It then ends up with Hutton who thinks, jesus christ you guys are awful, maybe I can do better. He can't but thanks for trying Hutts! Be it quality or attitude, I can't fathom why even our kids can play three neat passes in a few seconds, and our first team barely realises it's an option. Edited March 2, 2016 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkiller1981 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 As a few have said already i can to a certain extent accept that players are not good enough, i am not happy about it but with the way the club is run its to be expected i am afraid. What i find hard to understand is the lack of effort I know stats are not everything but if you look at the stats for the distance teams have run this season we are bottom by some distance. perhaps you could say thats fine if you are top of the league and making other sides run around chasing shadows. We are not we are bottom of the league and to me it looks more like the players are not working hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Leicester are a prime example of what can be achieved when everybody on the pitch busts a gut every week. They have some better players than us of course but my dad's a leicester fan so I watch them closely. No way are they even in the top 8 teams in terms of talent. No way are they 41 points better in terms of talent than us. No way is villas talent only worth 16 points, no way. And that's my point, I'm not suggesting we would be top of the league if we had tried - leicester are indeed, on an unbelievable ride - bit we wouldn't have 16 points. We would at least be in the dog fight. And I'm not sure why the masses are overlooking this and letting them get away with it. With the greatest of respect to the protest its main aim was a man who is 1000s of miles away. There was 11 players on the pitch that night, right in front of us that fully deserved to feel the wrath of the fans. They went home again, knowing they can be half arsed and get away with it - ashley westwood confirmed that himself. Yeah there is a culture at this club that has been stirring for years that will be tough to break. THe environment is far from ideal. However, 12 months ago, the Leicester manager was fighting with the fans in the stands. Yes, much different scenario, but potentially disruptive nevertheless. And there they are, 3 points clear at the top in march. I stand by that randy has made it impossible to compete at the right end of the table. The players however have chosen not to compete at the bottom. And we have let them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I think that you are correct Woodytom. The players should take a large chunk of the blame for this season, the ones who have really let us down most in my book are the experienced PL players like Gabby, Richards, Lescott, Guzan, Westwood, Hutton etc. Those players were meant to be the spine and steadying influence of the team, but they have all culpable for the bad performances and mistakes and for experienced players they should be doing a hell of a lot better and lead the new guys by example. The new guys haven't done fantastic either, but get a little leeway as it is not always easy for players new to the league to hit the ground running, especially when the experienced pros are all doing badly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova26 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) Richards and Lescott have taken the piss out of and are the most toxic of the players. Hutton I'll left of just because he's just shit. Gabby I'll reluctantly let off due to previous services to the club. I hope the club have learned not to ever take Man City cast off's again. Big Ron would have a lot to say about quite a few of our players, especially the aforementioned two. Edited March 3, 2016 by supernova26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Richards proving again the culture of the club in that press release from the Mirror. "Everton showed there quality in the end". Obviously he thinks Everton are far superior to shitty old Villa who he pay his wages. Unfortunately this is the culture of the club now. Players admitting we can hardly play against certain teams, like the top 10. Even just last season we were giving a good game to the likes of Liverpool. This season it seems the belief is we have lost even before we have started. Dread the think what they gonna say after Man City score 7+ against us. "Its not worth trying, its Man City", maybe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 On 3/2/2016 at 10:19, Woodytom said: It's not completely unknown , that I'm not a huge admirer of the players that wear the villa shirt right now. I haven't been for sometime in fact. The protest last night, although well organised, imo, was directed at completely the wrong people. (At this point I'd like to highlight that I'm not a fan of the decisions randy and the Board have made nor the job they are doing). However, ashley Westwood's comments last night about knowing the crowd are behind the players despite the protest, speaks volumes imo. They are getting away with murder and have done for years. I haven't got an issue with players not being good enough but having no fight, passion or desire is inexcusable and is something that starts within. Personnel/environment can have an effect on a person's motivation but for me, that shouldn't be where the blame lies. These players live a very charmed life and I don't think it's too much to ask that they find enough intrinsic motivation to give their very best for 90 minutes a week. They're not and we're letting them get away with it. A couple of times a small number have told the players directly what they think and we saw a response albeit minimal. It isn't a coincidence that every year our players underperform massively and their is certainly a deeper root to the problem. To take AVFC back to the top half of the league again would take a whole new regime without Lerner, without doubt. Nevertheless, I don't think it's too inconceivable to suggest that 11 players giving their all from moment one this season and we would at the very least be competitive in a relegation battle. We may have gone down this season due to the way the club is being run. However, we are going down in the manner that we are, because the players haven't tried. Where you away the weekend we played Wycombe? The abuse they were getting as they got on the coach and indeed out on the pitch was some of the worst I've heard directed at a premier league club in recent times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnbull Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Wasn't it Mark McGhee who coined the term "comfort zone", when he was Wolves boss some years back? Well since then, Villa have become symptoms of the disease and it's quite sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 4 hours ago, supernova26 said: Richards and Lescott have taken the piss out of and are the most toxic of the players. Hutton I'll left of just because he's just shit. Gabby I'll reluctantly let off due to previous services to the club. I hope the club have learned not to ever take Man City cast off's again. Big Ron would have a lot to say about quite a few of our players, especially the aforementioned two. I've said similar things before, but the problem really isn't that simple. Signing Barry and Distin, for example, hardly hurt Everton. So the question is; are we signing the wrong players, or are we signing players who would be good at another club but who fail here because we have a toxic culture? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Simple fact of life in my head, if the boss man don't care, does **** all all day and goes home from work early every day then five minutes later all his employees are going to do exactly the same For another thread probably around the time of England failing at the euros there a deeper discussion on PL footballer mentality and how I'm convinced anytime these words removed get a chance to cruise they take it, again for another thread the PL only myth that the Europa league means you're shit on the following Sunday Our players are absolutely cruising, it's lerners fault, it's foxs fault, it's sherwoods fault, it's the French players fault, media now saying its remis fault... If I see Scott Sinclair win a 50/50 before the end of the season I'm having his face tattooed on my ass, we're a team of bottles knowing the fingers are pointing absolutely everywhere, they don't care, not even an ounce of professional pride The worst thing is it won't be reported that way but it's our premier league experienced players that have been dreadful, Sinclair, Richards, gabby, Guzan, Lescott etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I've said similar things before, but the problem really isn't that simple. Signing Barry and Distin, for example, hardly hurt Everton. So the question is; are we signing the wrong players, or are we signing players who would be good at another club but who fail here because we have a toxic culture? Bit of both, but you have a great point on choosing players. Barry was always a class act as we well know. Distin, well that guy is as pacey as any defender comes, and always has been, plus he can defend...a no brainer. As for Richards, well he couldn't hold down a Man City spot, despite being given plenty of chances and wonderful players around him, he couldn't hold down an England place, despite Johnson etc. being in front of him and he failed at Fiorentina......there was always something managers didn't like about him and I think we've experienced it first hand, he thinks he's good enough. I wouldn't criticise the board too much on his signing though, it was probably a fair gamble. Lescott however was a shocking signing, not because it was Lescott (who I always thought was decent enough) but because he was never quick and he's getting slower. West Brom replaced him with Evans....erm, seriously, who thought Lescott was a better shout. Evans was a Fergie favourite and 27, I think that's a pretty good start even for the bottom half. The club is a little toxic for sure (players wise) but if we signed someone with ability and with experience perhaps they would've come in and been more influential? Instead we got loud mouth achieved nothing Richards and mistake prone can't hold my place Lescott, neither guys seem capable of inspiring a revolt against toxicity. Good god I miss Collins and Dunne, now there were two guys with the right attitude, plus nobody is messing with them. Edited March 4, 2016 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 What I'd really like the club to do is be the first to say 'do you know what, we're not putting up with this shit - we have a group of individuals within the playing staff who aren't bothered and are disruptive and we're sacking them'. I believe that everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone is entitled to voice that opinion. However, providing the request is reasonable (I was once asked to go and catch a rat from the bins in my first job ) when your boss asks you to do something, you **** well do it. I am honestly sick to the back teeth of these arseholes and the way they expect the footballing world to bow down to them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Trouble is then the PFA gets involved as we'd be dishonouring the contracts etc and we'd become a blacklisted clubs in their eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 20 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Trouble is then the PFA gets involved as we'd be dishonouring the contracts etc and we'd become a blacklisted clubs in their eyes. And that is pretty much why I have slowly but surely fallen out of love with football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 4 hours ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said: Good god I miss Collins and Dunne, now there were two guys with the right attitude, plus nobody is messing with them. Good post but I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if those 2 weren't the catalyst of the toxic culture. Not that they can be blamed for the fact that it seems that we haven't once had a player since who has come in, taken some responsibility and influenced the right culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 4 hours ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said: Good god I miss Collins and Dunne, now there were two guys with the right attitude, plus nobody is messing with them. IIRC there was much ado about piss-ups, quarrels with Villa staff, and not being fit enough for a PL first 11. I may be wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 30 minutes ago, TB said: IIRC there was much ado about piss-ups, quarrels with Villa staff, and not being fit enough for a PL first 11. I may be wrong. Yep it all started when houllier came in and they didn't like some of his new rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Just now, Woodytom said: Yep it all started when houllier came in and they didn't like some of his new rules. O'Neill's laissez-faire management and then Houllier expecting a certain degree of professionalism. Déjà vu, anyone? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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