tonyh29 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 31 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Guess you missed Ivan Rogers evidence to the Treasury Committee yesterday then? fitting you quoted him , he is the man that once told his staff to “challenge ill-founded arguments and muddled thinking”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: fitting you quoted him , he is the man that once told his staff to “challenge ill-founded arguments and muddled thinking”. Absolutely. And it's spectacular irony that you consider yourself to be on the right side of that instruction, given he was warning against people who thought they could just blunder through without understanding the rules they were dealing with. So you didn't see him repeat all the same points that you couldn't get your head around when I made them? But hey, what would he know. Probably doesn't even know that easyJet have a new headquarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: Unless you hang out with lots of members of the Taliban , I can't say that's a statement I can agree with or have seen any evidence of ... A distrust of people who hang Ernesto Guevara posters on their dormitory walls , well yes maybe , but I've not seen any evidence of this "threat" view Nah it's not wasters with Che Guevara posters that are the problem, Britain has a problem with experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 25 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Absolutely. And it's spectacular irony that you consider yourself to be on the right side of that instruction, given he was warning against people who thought they could just blunder through without understanding the rules they were dealing with. So you didn't see him repeat all the same points that you couldn't get your head around when I made them? But hey, what would he know. Probably doesn't even know that easyJet have a new headquarters. I said this where ? oh that's right , I didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 10 minutes ago, Enda said: Nah it's not wasters with Che Guevara posters that are the problem, Britain has a problem with experts. aren't they the same people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: aren't they the same people I know you're messing, but you'd be surprised how pervasive the "he's too educated, not in touch with the real world" mindset is. Many people have completely the wrong view of academics. Everything from out of touch elitists milking the system to communist hacks hoping to destroy society, even though those two things are essentially the opposite of each other. Anyway, this post by an Irish woman in the UK (married to a British soldier) on what it's like to be foreign in the UK right now is one of the best pieces of writing I've read in ages. Would recommend to anyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 37 minutes ago, Enda said: I know you're messing, but you'd be surprised how pervasive the "he's too educated, not in touch with the real world" mindset is. Many people have completely the wrong view of academics. Everything from out of touch elitists milking the system to communist hacks hoping to destroy society, even though those two things are essentially the opposite of each other. Anyway, this post by an Irish woman in the UK (married to a British soldier) on what it's like to be foreign in the UK right now is one of the best pieces of writing I've read in ages. Would recommend to anyone. Re her HofL story , maybe the woman doesn’t understand the British concept of small talk and nicety possibly ? It may of course have been exactly as she saw it but I dunno I just took that as people being polite , same way I tell Mrs H’s mother that her cooking is great (it isn’t) and that I wish she would teach Mrs H how to make it ( I don’t )... i confess I live in sunny Surrey but I’m just not seeing this abusing of foreigners and telling them to go home etc , my social circle is like a UN meeting I’ve yet to hear any of them complain of receiving any abuse , my wife is Hungarian she’s not received any nor have any of her circle of friends ... so I’m closer than your average bear to people likely to receive abuse , yet zilch ... I’m not denying it is happening in isolated incidences but the same people who are quick to jump on the don’t tarnish all Muslims with the same terrorist brush seem very quick to jump on the same Brexit has made every Englander a racist wagon .... So respectfully I can’t agree with her comment that we’ve become a nasty little country ... we were and still are one of the most tolerant countries , I sorta wish people would focus on that for a change 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted October 26, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 26, 2017 56 minutes ago, Enda said: Anyway, this post by an Irish woman in the UK (married to a British soldier) on what it's like to be foreign in the UK right now is one of the best pieces of writing I've read in ages. Would recommend to anyone. What a well written but sad indictment of the current situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Enda said: I know you're messing, but you'd be surprised how pervasive the "he's too educated, not in touch with the real world" mindset is. Many people have completely the wrong view of academics. Everything from out of touch elitists milking the system to communist hacks hoping to destroy society, even though those two things are essentially the opposite of each other. Anyway, this post by an Irish woman in the UK (married to a British soldier) on what it's like to be foreign in the UK right now is one of the best pieces of writing I've read in ages. Would recommend to anyone. I would say it's an article with a whole lot of harsh truths and some gross generalisation. It's unfair to paint the whole of the UK with same, rather unpleasant brush as the author has. I hope lots of people read it, and read it as I did. With indignation. I know I play no part in furthering the callous agenda of the British Establishment she talks about. I should imagine most people don't actually, at least intentionally. Chances are, because it's been written by an outsider it'll be dismissed as bitterness or jealously by those who really should take heed but prefer to wrap themselves in the flag and point here finger at 'others'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) I very much like the phrase 'Not my circus, not my monkeys'. Edited October 26, 2017 by snowychap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 26, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2017 We're a society that celebrates stupidity; Made in Chelsea, TOWIE, a whole host of shows that say it doesn't matter if you don't understand sciences, arts, politics, whatever, as long as you have abs and great teeth. We're a culture that values tits over thought and encourages our young people that success is being thin, tanned, having nice teeth and finding a way to get a Mercedes and dream of a yacht. It's the values of snapchat and instagram and It's incredibly shallow. I don't think it's wrong to then suggest that to consider the idea of intellectualism as a goal to be some sort of counter culture and to ostracise it is abnormal. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) I think an unfortunate consequence of the country voting for brexit is that those with xenophobic views felt they had been legitimised and many of them now feel confident in giving out abuse to what they perceive to be foreigners and telling people to go home. This whole thing is a sad sorry state of affairs and not just in the treatment of immigrants but also in the bully boy tactics where you either toe the line or get labelled a saboteur. It is down to the rest of us I guess to shout those with the extreme views down. Edited October 26, 2017 by markavfc40 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Enda said: Anyway, this post by an Irish woman in the UK (married to a British soldier) on what it's like to be foreign in the UK right now is one of the best pieces of writing I've read in ages. Would recommend to anyone. I read it all, but unfortunately she lost my ability to give her a fair go when she mentioned the UK being a nasty little country. That sort of ignorant sweeping generality is surely what she was railing against? But I promise not to think all of Ireland is a thick arse rude sort of place because of it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 51 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: We're a society that celebrates stupidity; Made in Chelsea, TOWIE, a whole host of shows that say it doesn't matter if you don't understand sciences, arts, politics, whatever, as long as you have abs and great teeth. We're a culture that values tits over thought and encourages our young people that success is being thin, tanned, having nice teeth and finding a way to get a Mercedes and dream of a yacht. It's the values of snapchat and instagram and It's incredibly shallow. I don't think it's wrong to then suggest that to consider the idea of intellectualism as a goal to be some sort of counter culture and to ostracise it is abnormal. I like nice teeth and tits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 26, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said: I like nice teeth and tits. Me too damnit - why wasn't this on the referendum? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Me too damnit - why wasn't this on the referendum? It was it’s just It was more of an aspiration rather than actually on the referendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: It was it’s just It was more of an aspiration rather than actually on the referendum again with the re writing of history we were lied to, it was on the side of the buses 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) Why should anyone believe this kind of shit? Edited October 27, 2017 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 11 hours ago, tonyh29 said: Re her HofL story , maybe the woman doesn’t understand the British concept of small talk and nicety possibly ? It may of course have been exactly as she saw it but I dunno I just took that as people being polite , same way I tell Mrs H’s mother that her cooking is great (it isn’t) and that I wish she would teach Mrs H how to make it ( I don’t )... i confess I live in sunny Surrey but I’m just not seeing this abusing of foreigners and telling them to go home etc , my social circle is like a UN meeting I’ve yet to hear any of them complain of receiving any abuse , my wife is Hungarian she’s not received any nor have any of her circle of friends ... so I’m closer than your average bear to people likely to receive abuse , yet zilch ... I’m not denying it is happening in isolated incidences but the same people who are quick to jump on the don’t tarnish all Muslims with the same terrorist brush seem very quick to jump on the same Brexit has made every Englander a racist wagon .... So respectfully I can’t agree with her comment that we’ve become a nasty little country ... we were and still are one of the most tolerant countries , I sorta wish people would focus on that for a change Well I teach English to non-English people living in the UK for a living, and I can assure you that several of them have stories of having been shouted at, spat at and told to 'go home'. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen to your wife, friends or anyone you know because it's very upsetting when it does. Maybe Surrey is just a bit nicer than Birmingham for this. On a different but not entirely unrelated note, I couldn't help but notice a woman arguing for the enforced deportation of more than a million people 'but not in a bad way' on the national news the other day: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Well I teach English to non-English people living in the UK for a living, and I can assure you that several of them have stories of having been shouted at, spat at and told to 'go home'. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen to your wife, friends or anyone you know because it's very upsetting when it does. Maybe Surrey is just a bit nicer than Birmingham for this. On a different but not entirely unrelated note, I couldn't help but notice a woman arguing for the enforced deportation of more than a million people 'but not in a bad way' on the national news the other day: Yeah, but they're all lying foreigners, innit? Also, I propose a petition to deport Barnsley. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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