The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[peterw]

8 hours ago, bickster said:

Not this again. 48% did know exactly what they were voting for

Its absolutely incorrect to say that no-one knew

This I agree with. It was a decision based wholly on immigration. They may not have known the nuances of a post-Brexit UK but I'm pretty sure the vast majority who voted to leave would still do so now.

[Rolta]

2 hours ago, peterw said:

This I agree with. It was a decision based wholly on immigration. They may not have known the nuances of a post-Brexit UK but I'm pretty sure the vast majority who voted to leave would still do so now.

I think you missed his point exactly 100%. 

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, peterw said:

This I agree with. It was a decision based wholly on immigration. They may not have known the nuances of a post-Brexit UK but I'm pretty sure the vast majority who voted to leave would still do so now.

I don't know about the vast majority. 

I think most people involved in fishing and farming would vote differently.  I also know a few people who voted out just for the hell of it who regret it, and that's just the ones brave enough to admit their idiocy - they're probably the tip of a silent iceberg. 

For sure there will be a hard core but certainly no where near enough to get it over the line today. 

Then there are things like my parents in law who both voted out. Unfortunately we've lost them both in the last couple of years. My kids would both be able to vote now and would unquestionably vote to remain. 

Not a chance the leave vote gets through with hindsight if it happens today. 

[peterw]

25 minutes ago, Rolta said:

I think you missed his point exactly 100%. 

Which bit? That people knew what they were voting for? I think they did. Any other point is slightly superfluous as then I added my point. They voted for immigration.

[peterw]

8 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I don't know about the vast majority. 

I think most people involved in fishing and farming would vote differently.  I also know a few people who voted out just for the hell of it who regret it, and that's just the ones brave enough to admit their idiocy - they're probably the tip of a silent iceberg. 

For sure there will be a hard core but certainly no where near enough to get it over the line today. 

Then there are things like my parents in law who both voted out. Unfortunately we've lost them both in the last couple of years. My kids would both be able to vote now and would unquestionably vote to remain. 

Not a chance the leave vote gets through with hindsight if it happens today. 

From the independent:

Nearly three-quarters (73 per cent) of those who are worried about immigration voted Leave,

 

from Ipsos

 

I could go on and I guess I'm getting away a bit from the point. of course there were other reasons but the for the majority it was this issue. Also, when you see random polls you don't see that much a of a shift towards regretting the decision other than the odd anecdotal story here and there. Sadly it'll be a generation at least before we get close to going back in.

Edited May 24, 2022 by peterw

[LondonLax]

41 minutes ago, peterw said:

Which bit? That people knew what they were voting for? I think they did. Any other point is slightly superfluous as then I added my point. They voted for immigration.

He was referring to the 48% who voted for remain as the ones who knew what they were voting for.

[peterw]

Just now, LondonLax said:

He was referring to the 48% who voted for remain as the ones who knew what they were voting for.

I know - that's the problem when you try and make a quick point. I was referring to people knowing what they're voting for, which is what I was agreeing with - then making a separate point about what those voting for leave voted for and I don't think that will change. 

maybe I should have just skipped over it and mused to myself...

[Xann]

To keep their gravy train on the tracks, finance parasites tickled the country's racism and dipshit nationalism.

You just had to look at the Sun being pro SNP north of the border, pro Tory south of the border, the Mail and Express screaming about immigrants and them all getting hysterical about the chap who was going to stop state funds going to companies owned in tax havens.

The witless fell for it, the pricks gravitated towards it naturally.

Here we are.

Are we looking forward to mass migration towards the temperate zones from the hotter parts of the globe?

[Rolta]

1 hour ago, peterw said:

Which bit? That people knew what they were voting for? I think they did. Any other point is slightly superfluous as then I added my point. They voted for immigration.

He said 48% of the people knew what they voted for. So which group got 48%?

(And off topic, just saying 'Immigration' kind of just sounds like the vague non descript bs the likes of the Daily Mail use to wind people up—maybe that's part of your point though. However that wasn't the reason for any of the leave voters I know except that one guy who was angrily against living next to Muslims in his quiet little country road in rural Devon).

Edited May 24, 2022 by Rolta

[peterw]

2 minutes ago, Rolta said:

He said 48% of the people knew what they voted for. So which group got 48%?

And just saying 'Immigration' kind of just sounds like the vague non descript bs the likes of the Daily Mail use to wind people up. 

Lordy Lord.

My (now very laboured) point was about people knowing what they were voting for.

As for immigration - you can break it down into his several sub parts or plots if you wish but i think as a reference point it sits quite aptly. 

 

 

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, peterw said:

Which bit? That people knew what they were voting for? I think they did. Any other point is slightly superfluous as then I added my point. They voted for immigration.

I think the fact that the most googled term the following day was ‘what is the EU’ (or something to that effect) suggests that a large number of people had zero idea what they were voting for.

There were a not insignificant number of people who genuinely thought they were voting for us to leave Europe.

[peterw]

12 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I think the fact that the most googled term the following day was ‘what is the EU’ (or something to that effect) suggests that a large number of people had zero idea what they were voting for.

There were a not insignificant number of people who genuinely thought they were voting for us to leave Europe.

This is the difficulty. I don't think they really had an educated idea of the truth behind what they were being fed (a lot of mistruths and outright lies) so believed one thing was true when it was not. That is probably particularly accurate in a lot of cases. As I said though, most opinion polls or questions to date still do not show a huge groundswell of support for those that voted for Brexit to now having changed their minds. It may be stubbornness, it may be racism, it may be ill education/not knowing what they were voting for, and it may be a committed belief to us taking the right course for the UK, but I'm not sure a vote now would give us a widly different result.

Edited May 24, 2022 by peterw

[bickster]

1 hour ago, peterw said:

As I said though, most opinion polls or questions to date still do not show a huge groundswell of support for those that voted for Brexit to now having changed their minds.

I think you'll need to add some ketchup to this claim

[tinker]

22 hours ago, bickster said:

Not this again. 48% did know exactly what they were voting for

Its absolutely incorrect to say that no-one knew

How did they know? At the time of the vote the terms of Brexit wasn't even decided , it took years and still isn't sorted yet.

So yes it is 'this again', makes me wonder why we have a forum when we could all just read a blog on your opinions and have done with it. 

 

[Enda]

43 minutes ago, tinker said:

How did they know? At the time of the vote the terms of Brexit wasn't even decided , it took years and still isn't sorted yet.

So yes it is 'this again', makes me wonder why we have a forum when we could all just read a blog on your opinions and have done with it. 

 

No way am I reading that blog.

Blogs. What is this, 2012?

[ml1dch]

5 minutes ago, Enda said:

No way am I reading that blog.

Blogs. What is this, 2012?

Damn right. If they're too lazy to dictate their thoughts into a podcast instead, their opinions are clearly worthless. 

[bickster]

2 hours ago, tinker said:

How did they know?

Because 48% voted remain, to stay in the EU, the status quo. They knew exactly what they were voting for.

There is no other way to interpret that. It’s not my opinion, it’s the facts of the matter

So when you said no-one knew what they voted for it is demonstrably wrong.

The only people that didn’t know what they were voting for was a huge proportion of the 52% and it’s generally people in the 52% that say “no-one knew what they were voting for” because they equate themselves with “everyone”

 

[Genie]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

Because 48% voted remain, to stay in the EU, the status quo. They knew exactly what they were voting for.

There is no other way to interpret that. It’s not my opinion, it’s the facts of the matter

So when you said no-one knew what they voted for it is demonstrably wrong.

The only people that didn’t know what they were voting for was a huge proportion of the 52% and it’s generally people in the 52% that say “no-one knew what they were voting for” because they equate themselves with “everyone”

 

Nobody knew what the alternative to the status quo would be, but many voted for it anyway.

[bickster]

Just now, Genie said:

Nobody knew what the alternative to the status quo would be, but many voted for it anyway.

I’m not sure what point you are making

[chrisp65]

To argue nobody knew what they voted for when one option was to keep what you already know and experience just shows the problem with letting people vote on important stuff!