The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[blandy]

The thing is, and I know this is a bit of a simplification, but I don’t want to type 3000 words. Anyway, England apart from Manchester and London voted Leave. Wales voted Leave. Scotland voted remain, as did Gibraltar. The people in Scotland, London, Manchester, NI and Gib have something that all the leave places don’t. They have more control over what happens in their lives, politically. All the leave places lack control and have politics done to them. The remain places have more of a say. Like I say, simplification, but until or unless that control is given the reasons for people voting Brexit will linger. Now those reasons might not actually have been correctly attributed to “it’s because of the EU”, but the people felt “ how it is isn’t working for us, it’s shit here”. So they voted for change. The change they/ we got has made everything worse, obviously, but the need for positive change in all those leave places has to be satisfied before there’s any point talking about rejoining the EU. I’m not talking dry economics, I mean having some Tory twunt in London deciding what happens in Preston or Prestatyn or Padstow and “no you can’t have decent buses, by the way we’re building a massive new tube line across London, isn’t that splendid?”

[LondonLax]

9 minutes ago, blandy said:

The thing is, and I know this is a bit of a simplification, but I don’t want to type 3000 words. Anyway, England apart from Manchester and London voted Leave. Wales voted Leave. Scotland voted remain, as did Gibraltar. The people in Scotland, London, Manchester, NI and Gib have something that all the leave places don’t. They have more control over what happens in their lives, politically. All the leave places lack control and have politics done to them. The remain places have more of a say. Like I say, simplification, but until or unless that control is given the reasons for people voting Brexit will linger. Now those reasons might not actually have been correctly attributed to “it’s because of the EU”, but the people felt “ how it is isn’t working for us, it’s shit here”. So they voted for change. The change they/ we got has made everything worse, obviously, but the need for positive change in all those leave places has to be satisfied before there’s any point talking about rejoining the EU. I’m not talking dry economics, I mean having some Tory twunt in London deciding what happens in Preston or Prestatyn or Padstow and “no you can’t have decent buses, by the way we’re building a massive new tube line across London, isn’t that splendid?”

It’s the same people who voted for Trump. A protest vote against ‘globalisation’ from people who feel like they haven’t benefited from it. 

[chrisp65]

56 minutes ago, blandy said:

The thing is, and I know this is a bit of a simplification, but I don’t want to type 3000 words. Anyway, England apart from Manchester and London voted Leave. Wales voted Leave. Scotland voted remain, as did Gibraltar. The people in Scotland, London, Manchester, NI and Gib have something that all the leave places don’t. They have more control over what happens in their lives, politically. All the leave places lack control and have politics done to them. The remain places have more of a say. Like I say, simplification, but until or unless that control is given the reasons for people voting Brexit will linger. Now those reasons might not actually have been correctly attributed to “it’s because of the EU”, but the people felt “ how it is isn’t working for us, it’s shit here”. So they voted for change. The change they/ we got has made everything worse, obviously, but the need for positive change in all those leave places has to be satisfied before there’s any point talking about rejoining the EU. I’m not talking dry economics, I mean having some Tory twunt in London deciding what happens in Preston or Prestatyn or Padstow and “no you can’t have decent buses, by the way we’re building a massive new tube line across London, isn’t that splendid?”

Professor Richard Wyn Jones does politics out of Cardiff Uni. Before the referendum he was telling anyone that would listen that Leave would win.

He predicted that older people were likely to vote leave. People predominantly exposed to english print media would vote leave, people only educated to GCSE were likely to vote leave. People of lower incomes in ex industrial areas were likely to vote leave. People that felt they were remote from centres of politics and decision making would vote leave. As you say, people that had decisions made for them. People that had lost industry and had cash granted to their area… only for that cash to be used for art installations by Belgian lamppost designers or community projects to film a choir up a mountain. People would be prepared to chance a spin of the wheel for something else. People thought we might be forced to make our own vacuum cleaners again. Rather than have lottery money for a vacuum cleaner museum.

Basically, he called it. 

 

 

[sidcow]

6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 People thought we might be forced to make our own vacuum cleaners again. Rather than have lottery money for a vacuum cleaner museum.

Dyson should be bloody forced to make vacuum cleaners here the twunt. 

[Genie]

I was wondering last night why Sunak is pushing for this now. They are already dead at the next election so why rock the boat?

I came to the conclusion they believe Labour will rebuild our relationship with the EU and dine out on the inevitable improvement in our economy. I guess if the Tories get the ball rolling before being booted out they can spend their time in opposition saying the economic benefits the UK are seeing is down to them.

[The Fun Factory]

14 hours ago, blandy said:

The thing is, and I know this is a bit of a simplification, but I don’t want to type 3000 words. Anyway, England apart from Manchester and London voted Leave. Wales voted Leave. Scotland voted remain, as did Gibraltar. The people in Scotland, London, Manchester, NI and Gib have something that all the leave places don’t. They have more control over what happens in their lives, politically. All the leave places lack control and have politics done to them. The remain places have more of a say. Like I say, simplification, but until or unless that control is given the reasons for people voting Brexit will linger. Now those reasons might not actually have been correctly attributed to “it’s because of the EU”, but the people felt “ how it is isn’t working for us, it’s shit here”. So they voted for change. The change they/ we got has made everything worse, obviously, but the need for positive change in all those leave places has to be satisfied before there’s any point talking about rejoining the EU. I’m not talking dry economics, I mean having some Tory twunt in London deciding what happens in Preston or Prestatyn or Padstow and “no you can’t have decent buses, by the way we’re building a massive new tube line across London, isn’t that splendid?”

The simplification is that educated people voted to remain, and less educated people voted to leave.  And until we get rid of parts of our poisonous right-wing media that won't change.

[sidcow]

3 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

The simplification is that educated people voted to remain, and less educated people voted to leave.  And until we get rid of parts of our poisonous right-wing media that won't change.

Neither myself or Mr's Sidcow went to university and neither of us voted to leave.

Plenty of Oxbridge twunts did though. I don't think it's as simple as that.

[phily85]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Neither myself or Mr's Sidcow went to university and neither of us voted to leave.

Plenty of Oxbridge twunts did though. I don't think it's as simple as that.

Difference being most of the Oxbridge twunts knew how to make money off it

[The Fun Factory]

15 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Neither myself or Mr's Sidcow went to university and neither of us voted to leave.

Plenty of Oxbridge twunts did though. I don't think it's as simple as that.

According to YouGov, 68% of voters with a university degree wanted to remain in the EU, while 70% of voters with only GCSE qualifications or lower voted to leave.

So basically yeah it was.

[juanpabloangel18]

As a fan of the EU project in principle, am taking some solace in the fact Brexit has had the opposite effect of what many thought it would (multiple member states following suit and leaving).

They've all taken one look at the state of us and said 'no thanks'. 

Good news if you believe in a united Europe IMO

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/how-brexit-made-the-eu-stronger/

Quote

 

Interestingly, the EES survey further found an increase in emotional attachment to the EU. In Finland, strong emotional attachment rose to 58.7% from 46%. Perhaps most curious of all, in Hungary (a country engaged in a bitter dispute with Brussels) it increased from 60% to 70.3%. 

Brexit has achieved the opposite of its aim. In hoping to delegitimise the EU as an institution and hasten its break-up, it merely increased its popularity with its remaining members in the same way that when Brexiteers pledged to make Britain more prosperous and globally respected in leaving the EU, the reverse happened.

 

 

[blandy]

15 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Professor Richard Wyn Jones does politics out of Cardiff Uni. Before the referendum he was telling anyone that would listen that Leave would win.

He predicted that older people were likely to vote leave. People predominantly exposed to english print media would vote leave, people only educated to GCSE were likely to vote leave. People of lower incomes in ex industrial areas were likely to vote leave. People that felt they were remote from centres of politics and decision making would vote leave. As you say, people that had decisions made for them. People that had lost industry and had cash granted to their area… only for that cash to be used for art installations by Belgian lamppost designers or community projects to film a choir up a mountain. People would be prepared to chance a spin of the wheel for something else. People thought we might be forced to make our own vacuum cleaners again. Rather than have lottery money for a vacuum cleaner museum.

Basically, he called it. 

He wasn't the only one. I recall seeing Mike @mjmooneypost on here that he thought Leave would win, and I know I did too, and I think you did as well. I'm sure loads of others did too. Obviously we didn't write all that professor stuff.... [does search of thread and comes back to write some more]...this was pretty much it

On 03/06/2016 at 16:31, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said:

I'm increasingly of the opinion that Brexit will win and the key voters will not be those who don't like immigrants or whatever, but those who just want to vote against the establishment.

The collective wisdom of VT sometimes gets stuff right.

[blandy]

3 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

According to YouGov, 68% of voters with a university degree wanted to remain in the EU, while 70% of voters with only GCSE qualifications or lower voted to leave.

So basically yeah it was.

Hmmm. Maybe higher levels of education lead to higher paid jobs (on average)? SO maybe it's less about (inferred "intelligence") and more about levels of financial comfort? or at least it's not as simple as thick voted leave and brainboxes voted remain - not that you personally are claiming that, I'm just making a general point*

 

*to quote Stewart Lee "[ words removed ] voted leave too"

[Enda]

Not all Manchester United supporter are rocket polishers. And there’s nothing wrong with like that club. But there is a rocket polisher effect there with that club. You’re pleasantly surprised when you meet a sensible, respectful Man Utd fan.

Not all people with degrees voted Remain. Not all people with GCSE’s voted Leave. When you meet someone who is very intelligent, and didn’t go to college for one reason or another, it’s a pleasant surprise to hear they regret Brexit. @sidcow and Mrs Sidcow are like the nice Man Utd fans who you’ve no problem having a pint with.

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Enda said:

@sidcow and Mrs Sidcow are like the nice Man Utd fans who you’ve no problem having a pint with.

Talk about praising someone whilst you kick them in the nuts  

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, Enda said:

Not all Manchester United supporter are rocket polishers. And there’s nothing wrong with like that club. But there is a rocket polisher effect there with that club. You’re pleasantly surprised when you meet a sensible, respectful Man Utd fan.

Not all people with degrees voted Remain. Not all people with GCSE’s voted Leave. When you meet someone who is very intelligent, and didn’t go to college for one reason or another, it’s a pleasant surprise to hear they regret Brexit. @sidcow and Mrs Sidcow are like the nice Man Utd fans who you’ve no problem having a pint with.

Aren't you a forriner?  I don't drink with forriners.

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, Enda said:

@sidcow and Mrs Sidcow are like the nice Man Utd fans who you’ve no problem having a pint with.

So what you’re saying is @sidcow only voted the way he did because he thought remain would win? 

[Enda]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

Aren't you a forriner?  I don't drink with forriners.

‘Bout time Brits realized Ireland is a different country, in fairness.

[Seat68]

56 minutes ago, Enda said:

‘Bout time Brits realized Ireland is a different country, in fairness.

I am pretty certain Infairness is in Scotchland. 

[one_ian_taylor]

On 12/02/2023 at 18:30, blandy said:

The thing is, and I know this is a bit of a simplification, but I don’t want to type 3000 words. Anyway, England apart from Manchester and London voted Leave. Wales voted Leave. Scotland voted remain, as did Gibraltar. The people in Scotland, London, Manchester, NI and Gib have something that all the leave places don’t. They have more control over what happens in their lives, politically. All the leave places lack control and have politics done to them. The remain places have more of a say. Like I say, simplification, but until or unless that control is given the reasons for people voting Brexit will linger. Now those reasons might not actually have been correctly attributed to “it’s because of the EU”, but the people felt “ how it is isn’t working for us, it’s shit here”. So they voted for change. The change they/ we got has made everything worse, obviously, but the need for positive change in all those leave places has to be satisfied before there’s any point talking about rejoining the EU. I’m not talking dry economics, I mean having some Tory twunt in London deciding what happens in Preston or Prestatyn or Padstow and “no you can’t have decent buses, by the way we’re building a massive new tube line across London, isn’t that splendid?”

Couldn't  agree more. And you could extend the parallel to other European countries  with more devolved power to local/regional government. The big con is that it was the EU that was the problem,  when in fact it was and still is over centralisation of power in Westminster

[StanBalaban]