The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[a m ole]

3 hours ago, ChrisVillan said:

52% of the public? When did that go up?

to be fair, it’s down on the 100% WoTP rhetoric.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

51 minutes ago, bickster said:

54 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

it will be bad

it will start with a march, protests, a large gathering of a lot of people with pockets of right wingers running throughout plus then % of people who are just there in anticipation of what comes next...it will get a bit lairy, something will trigger someone...it will be water cannons at dawn and that will of course be followed by the looting of JD sports because how else do you show your displeasure over the demise of democracy (maybe burning some local shops)

in the same way that 4 days of riots followed the police shooting of a kid in London in 2011, something bigger is coming before this is all over, if we stay it will be worse but I can riots regardless

Dare I say it... the real Project Fear appears to be working

In a small defense for @villa4europe,  I suggest if there is trouble at any point, neither Remain or Leave will be there.  As with 2011,  half the people didn't know what was going on but took full advantage of a situation.  At no point could I see the connection between a Police shooting and some Basmarti Rice for example  .  There are people who genuinely love a good riot out there who don't know what the EU is,  they won't stay at home I guess.

 

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

There are people who genuinely love a good riot out there who don't know what the EU is,  they won't stay at home I guess.

 

You mean leavers? 

[villa4europe]

6 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

In a small defense for @villa4europe,  I suggest if there is trouble at any point, neither Remain or Leave will be there.  As with 2011,  half the people didn't know what was going on but took full advantage of a situation.  At no point could I see the connection between a Police shooting and some Basmarti Rice for example  .  There are people who genuinely love a good riot out there who don't know what the EU is,  they won't stay at home I guess.

that's exactly what I mean, like I said looting JDs has nothing to do with Brexit, I was thinking of the guy with the Tesco value basmati rice

a mixture of people who just want to go on a good stomping, bored kids, scallies and thieves all under the banner of being unhappy with the final Brexit deal

[tonyh29]

tbf the ones with the historical trend of taking to the streets and trashing McDonalds and vandalising statues around parliament square  are almost certainly  all remain supporters anyway  so i think the streets of London will be safe in the event Brexit doesn't happen

[ChrisVillan]

22 minutes ago, a m ole said:

to be fair, it’s down on the 100% WoTP rhetoric.

Baby steps. 

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, avfcDJ said:

I haven't looked, this is based on what I remember reading, but I think hate crimes have risen? It won't take much to spark a mass protest and violence, and remember, F**krage once set "I'll get my gun", these people are dangerous.

reports in hate crimes rose  , its possible that previously someone got told to " go home"  they just shrugged and walked on rather than reporting it to the police and taking to twitter and having it shared 20,000 times ,where it invariably morphed into 30 different occurrences ..  its also much easier to report a hate crime now  , you can do it from your phone nowadays . ... I don't necessarily know that the country has lurched right , its probably the same handful of nutters just getting more exposure ( see also knife crime which isn't a new invention since 2019)

I get living in sunny Surrey I live in a  bubble , but my wife is Hungarian , she's lived her 18 years now , still has her accent , still proud of her roots   .. in 18 years she hasn't encountered one instance of anything remotely xenophobic towards her ...  sure , its a nice anecdote with a sample size of 1  , (though  needless to say we have lots of Hungarian friends with similar experiences) but as I've said here many a time , I'm just not seeing this rise in anger towards immigrants that others are   .. the people I know that voted remain their anger/reasoning  seems to be towards the EU rather than immigrants ( the misplaced anger is one that's been done before )

As he is my MP I looked at the Runnymede conservative facebook page after Hammond got de-selected to gauge the mood  , most of the anger on there was towards Hammond and him being a cock womble  ,  true the vocal minority at work again  but personally i think anger is more towards politicians than anyone else at present

Edited September 6, 2019 by tonyh29
added the misisng part about police as pointed out

[bickster]

12 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

reports in hate crimes rose  , its possible that previously someone got told to " go home"  they just shrugged and walked on rather than taking to twitter and having it shared 20,000 times ,where it invariably morphed into 30 different occurrences    ..   I don't necessarily know that the country has lurched right , its probably the same handful of nutters just getting more exposure ( see also knife crime which isn't a new invention since 2019)

reports in hate crime have absolutely zero to do with twitter

[Davkaus]

"Hate crime" numbers are pretty meaningless. Something is considered a hate crime if the victim feels like it was a hate crime. There's no objectivity to it at all, it's all based upon the perception of the victim.

For example, the number has just incremented by one after @tonyh29's latest dig at vegans.  

[Vive_La_Villa]

No way will it all kick off.  

There will just be moans and groans and then people will carry on with their lives. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

In a small defense for @villa4europe,  I suggest if there is trouble at any point, neither Remain or Leave will be there.  As with 2011,  half the people didn't know what was going on but took full advantage of a situation.  At no point could I see the connection between a Police shooting and some Basmarti Rice for example  .  There are people who genuinely love a good riot out there who don't know what the EU is,  they won't stay at home I guess.

 

Plus the fact anyone that got caught were given harsh prison sentences should make sure it doesnt happen again. 

[Genie]

"We" are bumbling along on the basis that although its a bit embarrassing asking the EU for another extension, we assume they will say yes.

What if they say no? We're f**ked aren't we? Can they tell us we're out on the 31st so make a decision to take TM's deal or no-deal. TBH, who would blame them if they did.

[peterms]

27 minutes ago, Genie said:

"We" are bumbling along on the basis that although its a bit embarrassing asking the EU for another extension, we assume they will say yes.

What if they say no? We're f**ked aren't we? Can they tell us we're out on the 31st so make a decision to take TM's deal or no-deal. TBH, who would blame them if they did.

The option exists to withdraw article 50.  That would cause all sorts of fury here, but if we are on the verge of a total mess, or if one country or more vetoes an extension to push us into a no-deal exit, then it is a way out.  It would need to be done with a view to negotiating withdrawal arrangements without the ticking bomb in the corner.

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, peterms said:

It would need to be done with a view to negotiating withdrawal arrangements without the ticking bomb in the corner.

Fairly sure I remember a clause that says you can't do this

[Xann]

 

Quote

 

Italy's new populist-centre left government has been appointed amid legal moves against the ousted right-wing Interior Minister, Matteo Salvini.

Prosecutors launched a libel suit against Mr Salvini on behalf of migrant rescuer Carola Rackete. She ignored Mr Salvini's order to keep her charity ship out of Italian waters.

And a mayor who defied Mr Salvini by sheltering migrants in the southern town of Riace saw his ban lifted.

An independent has replaced Mr Salvini.

She is Luciana Lamorgese, a career civil servant and immigration specialist. She is expected to bring Italy closer to its EU partners on immigration, ending Mr Salvini's strident campaign against the charity ships rescuing migrants off Libya.

 

BBC

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Interestingly, as far as taking to the streets goes, it's the Remainers who have the numbers. Brexiter 'rallies' so far have been pretty risible. 

That wasn't what I had in mind. I think we'll see more things like prominent Remainers targetted like Owen Jones was recently, or even worse, Jo Cox. For all his outrageous behaviour, I don't think Boris needs to fear for his safety from violent Remain nutters. But if - say - Corbyn were to become PM, I wouldn't put it past some right wing headcase to have a pop at him or his colleagues. 

This seems right. One side has shown a propensity toward political violence so far, and it hasn't been remainers. 

[peterms]

22 minutes ago, bickster said:

Fairly sure I remember a clause that says you can't do this

The EU have certainly said they wouldn't do it, though I'm not aware of any legal restriction on doing it.

It's a matter of political choice.  If the options are having a resentful and divided member constantly at odds with the others, blocking things at every turn, or changing their position to discuss withdrawal arrangements before setting the machinery in motion, a different view may be taken.

[HanoiVillan]

24 minutes ago, bickster said:

Fairly sure I remember a clause that says you can't do this

I think you're technically right, though the last two years of history have happened so we know anyway what the eu's position would be. We could, in theory, work out what we actually want based on their red lines, then re-trigger article 50 and then negotiate something we have very good reason to think they would accept. 

[tonyh29]

2 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Interestingly, as far as taking to the streets goes, it's the Remainers who have the numbers. Brexiter 'rallies' so far have been pretty risible. 

Isn't that because the current position is to leave ..in some description or other  ...  where as the protestors are on the streets trying to stop something that will be happening

if Brexit is stopped , the balance of numbers on the street could well then change  ?

[StefanAVFC]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Isn't that because the current position is to leave ..in some description or other  ...  where as the protestors are on the streets trying to stop something that will be happening

if Brexit is stopped , the balance of numbers on the street could well then change  ?

Out of interest, if we left with a Norway style deal, do you think those same would-be Brexiteer protesters would take to the streets? even though we did actually leave.