The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

"We" are bumbling along on the basis that although its a bit embarrassing asking the EU for another extension, we assume they will say yes.

What if they say no? We're f**ked aren't we? Can they tell us we're out on the 31st so make a decision to take TM's deal or no-deal. TBH, who would blame them if they did.

I did raise this the other day   .... the word last time out was Macron wanted to veto any extension  , We and presumably other negotiators were pushing for 31st March 2020  , Macron was persuaded to agree to Oct 31st

Macron might quite like the idea to finally veto this time around for all we know

[Genie]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

I did raise this the other day   .... the word last time out was Macron wanted to veto any extension  , We and presumably other negotiators were pushing for 31st March 2020  , Macron was persuaded to agree to Oct 31st

Macron might quite like the idea to finally veto this time around for all we know

Boris really does not want to be the guy to ask for an extension, which supports the case that he knows he'll be the one holding the baby when it really goes sour.

Boris asks for extension

EU has a meeting

EU says no

It becomes a national emergency.

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

if Brexit is stopped , the balance of numbers on the street could well then change  ?

Doubt it, most of the leavers are almost dead or lazy bastards (j/k)

[Sam-AVFC]

14 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Isn't that because the current position is to leave ..in some description or other  ...  where as the protestors are on the streets trying to stop something that will be happening

if Brexit is stopped , the balance of numbers on the street could well then change  ?

Wishful thinking. They seem outraged enough on social media already and you'd think that would translate to people on the street.

I know one guy who has gone on pro-Brexit marches, but he's also regularly in London for 'Free Tommy Robinson' marches. He's one of these 'you can't say anything anymore' who lives in a small town where absolutely no one would ever have told him what he can and can't say.

I'm sure he got whipped into a state by a dubious Daily Mail article about not being able to say Christmas anymore. He told me once you couldn't say Christmas in the Civil Services (while I worked for them) and refused to believe me when I told him it's nonsense.

Edit: Just for clarity I'm not accusing you of being an EDL type, just went off on a tangent!

Edited September 6, 2019 by Sam-AVFC

[Sam-AVFC]

Just now, bickster said:

Doubt it, most of the leavers are almost dead or lazy bastards (j/k)

...and all remainers are jobless, student, dirty hippy, snowflake, leftie types etc.

Be interesting to see the leave vote areas against unemployment rates though. I also find it weird that a lot of the Brexit supporters are way too busy at work to protest, but resent immigrants for taking their jobs.

[StefanAVFC]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

Boris really does not want to be the guy to ask for an extension, which supports the case that he knows he'll be the one holding the baby when it really goes sour.

Boris asks for extension

EU has a meeting

EU says no

It becomes a national emergency.

In a not-batshit world, you'd revoke immediately in this scenario. Chances under the Tories: Zero. 

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, Sam-AVFC said:

...and all remainers are jobless, student, dirty hippy, snowflake, leftie types etc.

Be interesting to see the leave vote areas against unemployment rates though. I also find it weird that a lot of the Brexit supporters are way too busy at work to protest, but resent immigrants for taking their jobs.

Schrodinger's Immigrant strikes again!

[bickster]

Just now, Sam-AVFC said:

...and all remainers are jobless, student, dirty hippy, snowflake, leftie types etc.

Be interesting to see the leave vote areas against unemployment rates though. I also find it weird that a lot of the Brexit supporters are way too busy at work to protest, but resent immigrants for taking their jobs.

Generally speaking Brexit supporting areas were areas of relatively low ethnic variance

[tonyh29]

5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Out of interest, if we left with a Norway style deal, do you think those same would-be Brexiteer protesters would take to the streets? even though we did actually leave.

 I'd imagine you'd still  see some insignificant amount of protestors , akin to what you are seeing at the moment  , i.e hardcore brexit nutjobs

Norway style wouldn't allow us  to end freedom of movement  though , which means it would be a tough sell to a lot of people ... possibly we could loophole  article 112 under environmental strains or something  ?

nor would we be able to get other free trade agreements but I don't think that will enter the thoughts of most people 

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

 I'd imagine you'd still  see some insignificant amount of protestors , akin to what you are seeing at the moment  , i.e hardcore brexit nutjobs

Norway style wouldn't allow us  to end freedom of movement  though , which means it would be a tough sell to a lot of people ... possibly we could loophole  article 112 under environmental strains or something  ?

nor would we be able to get other free trade agreements but I don't think that will enter the thoughts of most people 

Did the UK vote to end freedom of movement?

[tonyh29]

4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

In a not-batshit world, you'd revoke immediately in this scenario. Chances under the Tories: Zero. 

trouble is roughly 61% of Tory voters , voted leave

so yes chances under the Tories is zero it would almost be suicidal for them to do otherwise

it doesn't appear it will go away no matter how you look at it really  , does it  ?

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

trouble is roughly 61% of Tory voters , voted leave

so yes chances under the Tories is zero it would almost be suicidal for them to do otherwise

it doesn't appear it will go away no matter how you look at it really  , does it  ?

So you admit Tories put party interest ahead of national interest?

[tonyh29]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Did the UK vote to end freedom of movement?

well technically it voted to leave and freedom of movement is one of the 4 freedom principals of the EU , so you could make a stab at saying yes they did

 

I'd say freedom of movement was quite a key point to a lot of voters ,  immigration is usually cited as  key reason why people voted leave isn't it ?

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

trouble is roughly 61% of Tory voters , voted leave

so yes chances under the Tories is zero it would almost be suicidal for them to do otherwise

it doesn't appear it will go away no matter how you look at it really  , does it  ?

80% of Tory voters are nearly dead, it'll go away, slowly but it'll go

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

well technically it voted to leave and freedom of movement is one of the 4 freedom principals of the EU , so you could make a stab at saying yes they did

 

I'd say freedom of movement was quite a key point to a lot of voters ,  immigration is usually cited as  key reason why people voted leave isn't it ?

Was ending freedom of movement on the ballot paper?

[bickster]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

I'd say freedom of movement was quite a key point to a lot of voters ,  immigration is usually cited as  key reason why people voted leave isn't it ?

I'd say FOM is actually the battleground. The opposite is also true. Remainers want FOM, probably over ever single other issue

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

immigration is usually cited as  key reason why people voted leave isn't it ?

My best mate's dad voted Brexit because as a plumber, he goes into council flats with 8/9 people in each one of Pakistani/Indian origin and he doesn't think it's right.

[tonyh29]

5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

So you admit Tories put party interest ahead of national interest?

I don't think there is any party that doesn't   , but i guess this argument really boils down to whose definition of "national interest"

[desensitized43]

6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

well technically it voted to leave and freedom of movement is one of the 4 freedom principals of the EU , so you could make a stab at saying yes they did

 

I'd say freedom of movement was quite a key point to a lot of voters ,  immigration is usually cited as  key reason why people voted leave isn't it ?

This is the problem with the referendum in general.

You constantly hear noises from hardcore Brexit nutters saying "I didn't vote for a deal, a deal wasn't on the ballot etc"...

Leave mean't 17.4m different things. It was deliberately made ambiguous by Farage and Johnson et al by saying we could "be like Norway" to make their base as wide as possible

If they've now decided that leaving means we can't be like Norway and Switzerland then we need to do this over again.

[tonyh29]

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Was ending freedom of movement on the ballot paper?

 I get what you are trying to say  , but  i think that's a kind of frivolous argument , how big did you want the ballot paper to be  ?