HanoiVillan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: tbf he was proven correct on both counts How so? Again, if 'starting Scott Sinclair' is the appropriate yardstick for measuring both managers, then Sherwood looks worse than Garde. Sherwood started Sinclair in a far higher proportion of games than Garde has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 16 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: walking out doesn't help your self-esteem, doesn't look good on your CV, and doesn't pay the bills. Martin O'Neil says Hi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: tbf he was proven correct on both counts He really wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: How so? Again, if 'starting Scott Sinclair' is the appropriate yardstick for measuring both managers, then Sherwood looks worse than Garde. Sherwood started Sinclair in a far higher proportion of games than Garde has done. I don't think that was the case being put forward though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Zatman wanted Garde sacked after a couple of weeks for daring to pick Scott Sinclair, whilst in the same breath insisting Sherwood should have been given more time. It's safe to say his opinion on Garde is slightly skewed (not that I think garde has done a good job, I just don't think he's anywhere near as bad as Zatman is making out) 32 minutes ago, Zatman said: I still stand by my decision that starting Scott **** Sinclair is a sackable offence 6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: tbf he was proven correct on both counts @tonyh29 Where have I gone wrong in following the argument? Edited March 21, 2016 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 34 minutes ago, 1974Centenary said: I dont care about managers i care about Aston Villa,and giving Garde any amount of money in the summer to build HIS team is very dangerous based on what ive seen so far.We need a fresh start at all levels of this club not just in the boardroom. sure Doumbia is on flying form for Newcastle now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, Zatman said: sure Doumbia is on flying form for Newcastle now Khazri has done alright for Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: @tonyh29 Where have I gone wrong in following the argument? Sherwood isn't relevant to the first point , this isn't the politics thread where you can get away with "Ahhh but" ... I didn't quote his second statement as I was unaware of its existence at the time I made my post , but saying that the winky face thingy should be a clue as to the intent it was about Garde should have been sacked for picking Sinclair .. he should have also been sacked for a few other crimes against football to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 21 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: He really wasn't. Oh yes he was ( panto season isn't until Dec though) It's always hard to prove of course but I'd stake a lot that Sherwood would have got more points fro us this season than Garde has ... I'd argued before that Garde is a better manager than Sherwood and would build a club where as Sherwood clearly can't .. but I'm not even sure on that argument anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Oh yes he was ( panto season isn't until Dec though) It's always hard to prove of course but I'd stake a lot that Sherwood would have got more points fro us this season than Garde has ... I'd argued before that Garde is a better manager than Sherwood and would build a club where as Sherwood clearly can't .. but I'm not even sure on that argument anymore I'm unsure to what point you're making. Zat's points were that Sherwood should have been given more time, and that Garde should have been sacked for picking Sinclair. He hasn't been proven right in those points in any way. Whether Garde has done better or worse than Sherwood would have is irrelevant to whether Sherwood should have been given more time. Just because we may have appointed the wrong person to take over, doesn't mean it was wrong to sack Sherwood. And as explained, the Sinclair point is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Oh yes he was ( panto season isn't until Dec though) It's always hard to prove of course but I'd stake a lot that Sherwood would have got more points fro us this season than Garde has ... I'd argued before that Garde is a better manager than Sherwood and would build a club where as Sherwood clearly can't .. but I'm not even sure on that argument anymore Sherwood had lost the dressing room. He put them in the hole that Remi was unable to climb from. I'm not sure what reason people have to think he would have gotten more, potentially it could have been even worse especially when the club pulled the plug and waved the flag in January. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Sherwood had lost the dressing room. He hadn't, the vast majority were behind him. That vast majority are now the ones that are not behind Garde and his coaches. They never have been. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2016 The performance on the weekend was classic Garde era Villa, start the game actually playing decent and looking well prepared and then a mistake at the back and then the players heads drop and that's it. Followed by a stuffing or a slow death depending on the strength of the opposition. Now, for me that says that he is doign a dcent job through the week of training the squad who then through incompetence, stupidity or bad luck contrive to **** it up and then lack any kind of belief after losing so often to be able to come back from a goal down. It doesn't look like he is a bad manager to me, it looks like the job was impossible at the start and got harder after the generous backing of the board in Jan. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I'm not sure what reason people have to think he would have gotten more, I guess you could take Sunderland at home and then 72 mins of our next match Leicester away (yes I know a game is 90 mins) and ask had we re-produced performances like that , would we have picked up points ? as I already said , it's impossible to really answer ..like I said my feel is we'd have sneaked more points but only papered over cracks 13 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: He put them in the hole that Remi was unable to climb from which probably is as damming a statement of Remi that can be made tbh ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2016 9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I guess you could take Sunderland at home and then 72 mins of our next match Leicester away (yes I know a game is 90 mins) and ask had we re-produced performances like that , would we have picked up points ? as I already said , it's impossible to really answer ..like I said my feel is we'd have sneaked more points but only papered over cracks What about the 7 games after those two that occurred before Sherwood got sacked? It's cherry picking to quote the two decent performances Sherwood managed this season and say he could have reproduced them again. Had he reproduced them again over the following 6 weeks he might have been kept on. But in reality we were utterly dreadful. As bad as most of what Garde has served up. But like I said, whether or not he could have gotten more than Garde is largely irrelevant. Garde's performance doesn't make Sherwood's sacking any less justifiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2016 20 minutes ago, KHV said: He hadn't, the vast majority were behind him. Disagree completely. Sherwood lost the dressing room before the cup final, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 33 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Sherwood isn't relevant to the first point , this isn't the politics thread where you can get away with "Ahhh but" ... I didn't quote his second statement as I was unaware of its existence at the time I made my post , but saying that the winky face thingy should be a clue as to the intent it was about Garde should have been sacked for picking Sinclair .. he should have also been sacked for a few other crimes against football to be fair But it is relevant? It makes no sense to say 'Sherwood should have had more time' while also saying 'Garde should be sacked for playing Sinclair'. I've explained the obvious contradiction between these two positions. Maybe you're right about 'other crimes against football' but that wasn't under discussion. Since we're doing the smiley thing, this is me reading this thread Overall, I certainly don't feel there's been any evidence against me saying Zatman has a personal vendetta against Garde, and some evidence that I was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: But like I said, whether or not he could have gotten more than Garde is largely irrelevant. it isn't when that was the question being asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2016/03/21/david-ginola-shares-the-damning-message-remi-garde-gave-him-abou/ Quote David Ginola has told TalkSPORT programme The Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast, which was broadcast on 21st March, that Aston Villa boss Remi Garde has criticised the attitude of his players at Villa Park. Garde took over at Villa from Tim Sherwood last year, and he was tasked with saving the Midlands side from relegation. However, the French boss’s appointment has not had the desired impact - with Villa slipping even further away from safety. The Claret and Blues are currently 12 points behind Norwich City, who occupy 17th place in the Premier League table, and they have won just three games all season. Villa will almost certainly be playing Championship football next season, and, according to Ginola, Garde has suggested that the players at the club do not realise what relegation will mean. “I’ve spoken to Remi many times,” Ginola said. “He said the attitude of the players isn’t bright. He also said that ‘I don’t think I have got the players to understand what keeping Villa in the Premier League means’. They are not ready to fight for the club. The attitude on the pitch isn’t right. I think he gave up.” Poor bugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) 27 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: it isn't when that was the question being asked Now I'm totally confused, because that wasn't the question being asked when you made your post. Edited March 21, 2016 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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