Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, TRO said: You know what they say about sarcasm you see, here you go again, ridiculing someone elses opinion/analogy implying yours is sacrosanct. I've implied no such thing. If you've inferred that then I apologise. I don't think calling a post that I think is absurd "absurd" is doing anything wrong, especially as I acknowledged that you were probably joking, which apparently you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I find it interesting that 10 games proved Sherwood was a charlatan and 20 games means we can't properly judge Garde all with the same players. Sherwood was part of the summer transfer process, so he gets the blame for that along with Reilly, Fox and Almstadt. But in terms of tactics, performances and results it seems odd that there's such a different attitude towards both managers who have produced such similar results. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 10 minutes ago, VillanousOne said: At the start of the season he hadn't got a clue who or how to play with our new look squad, but i could bet you a tenner he would have done better than Garde has done. and i think Sherwood is an egotistical arse See, I don't get this. Sherwood was with us this season and did a worse job this season than his replacement has done, again, this season. Where is any logic that dictates Sherwood would've somehow done better? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: I've implied no such thing. If you've inferred that then I apologise. I don't think calling a post that I think is absurd "absurd" is doing anything wrong, especially as I acknowledged that you were probably joking, which apparently you were. I commented that Tim Sherwood had a very,very difficult task taking over from Paul lambert....I illustrated that in a reversed logical humour with a poignant point to it. you referred to it as an "absurd comparision" You clearly see that you can say what you like about other folks posts, but when they give it you back you get prickly. you can only apologise if you think you have done something wrong, you clearly don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I find it interesting that 10 games proved Sherwood was a charlatan and 20 games means we can't properly judge Garde all with the same players. Sherwood was part of the summer transfer process, so he gets the blame for that along with Reilly, Fox and Almstadt. But in terms of tactics, performances and results it seems odd that there's such a different attitude towards both managers who have produced such similar results. Sherwood came out and said "I don't have a club what I'm doing". Which managerial job is this underrated manager currently sat in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I find it interesting that 10 games proved Sherwood was a charlatan and 20 games means we can't properly judge Garde all with the same players. Sherwood was part of the summer transfer process, so he gets the blame for that along with Reilly, Fox and Almstadt. But in terms of tactics, performances and results it seems odd that there's such a different attitude towards both managers who have produced such similar results. I'd have thought the perception is because, Sherwood built the squad. It should have been based around what he wanted. it failed miserably. Remi's been given that same squad, with none of his ideas and none of the players he wants, been unable to add to it, and had to just work with it. It's like me building a car, driving it and crashing because it's not fit to be on the road. Then you're forced into the driving seat and crash it as well. It would be fair to cut you a bit more slack than me wouldn't it? Because you've had to drive my shit heap of a car. Edited March 21, 2016 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bobzy said: See, I don't get this. Sherwood was with us this season and did a worse job this season than his replacement has done, again, this season. Where is any logic that dictates Sherwood would've somehow done better? Was it? Under Garde we score less, we concede more and the win percentage is lower. Point per game is probably higher as is some other things but I don't think it's that clear and dry. And if Garde remains to the end of this season I'd imagine he will be worse than Sherwood in the majority of statistics. Edited March 21, 2016 by DCJonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: I'd have thought the perception is because, Sherwood built the squad. It should have been based around what he wanted. it failed miserably. Remi's been given that same squad, with none of his ideas and none of the players he wants, been unable to add to it, and had to just work with it. It's like me building a car, driving it and crashing because it's not fit to be on the road. Then you're forced into the driving seat and crash it as well. It would be fair to cut you a bit more slack than me wouldn't it? Because you've had to drive my shit heap of a car. Sherwood got the squad, he and 2 people who have also been fired built. I think it's fair to cut Garde a bit more slack. But from Charlatan to free pass, can't be judged, seems more than a bit more slack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I hate to bang on about Sherwood, but if the reports in the summer were true he wanted to sign a number of English players, a lot of them ex-Spurs like Huddlestone and Townsend. by the time Delph had turn traitor and the Adebeyor deal was dead there were few options left and I think the players from France all looked decent enough on paper so I can't see any manager turning those down, but I don't think many would have built a team around them including Sherwood. I am not saying Sherwood was or is a good manager and I don't think he was right for us, I just don't think he was any worse than Garde. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, TRO said: I commented that Tim Sherwood had a very,very difficult task taking over from Paul lambert....I illustrated that in a reversed logical humour with a poignant point to it. you referred to it as an "absurd comparision" You clearly see that you can say what you like about other folks posts, but when they give it you back you get prickly. you can only apologise if you think you have done something wrong, you clearly don't. It is an absurd comparison because what lambert left Sherwood and what Sherwood left Garde are miles apart. That's what I meant. Anyway, you clearly have a problem with my posts. You can use the ignore function if they bother you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 51 minutes ago, PaulC said: Thats not true though is it! He got Leicester promotion. Thats good enough for me. One swallow doesn't make a summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Was it? Under Garde we score less, we concede more and the percentage is lower. Point per game is probably higher as is some other things but I don't think it's that clear and dry. And if Garde remains to the end of this season I'd imagine he will be worse than Sherwood in the majority of statistics. Points per game is surely the only relevant comparison in a point-based league system such as ours? See also: win percentages. Sherwood used to love those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, VillanousOne said: I hate to bang on about Sherwood, but if the reports in the summer were true he wanted to sign a number of English players, a lot of them ex-Spurs like Huddlestone and Townsend. by the time Delph had turn traitor and the Adebeyor deal was dead there were few options left and I think the players from France all looked decent enough on paper so I can't see any manager turning those down, but I don't think many would have built a team around them including Sherwood. I am not saying Sherwood was or is a good manager and I don't think he was right for us, I just don't think he was any worse than Garde. I was quite interested to see what he could do and thought it could work, but it was a gamble. its the ferocity of criticism that has been aimed at the guy i find hard to accept. Like Remi Garde, Tim Sherwood had a monumental task.....He seemed to get Benteke functioning again, but it was all a bit hit and miss overall....It was drifting in to a mess before TS & RG come on the scene. Its all cosmetic now, but the guy had one hand tied behind his back in much the same way Remi has. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 1 minute ago, TRO said: I was quite interested to see what he could do and thought it could work, but it was a gamble. its the ferocity of criticism that has been aimed at the guy i find hard to accept. Like Remi Garde, Tim Sherwood had a monumental task.....He seemed to get Benteke functioning again, but it was all a bit hit and miss overall....It was drifting in to a mess before TS & RG come on the scene. Its all cosmetic now, but the guy had one hand tied behind his back in much the same way Remi has. Apart from that Sherwood (and his team?) had roughly £50m to spend, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I find it interesting that 10 games proved Sherwood was a charlatan and 20 games means we can't properly judge Garde all with the same players. Sherwood was part of the summer transfer process, so he gets the blame for that along with Reilly, Fox and Almstadt. But in terms of tactics, performances and results it seems odd that there's such a different attitude towards both managers who have produced such similar results. Sherwood also had about 20 games. And apart from a 5 or 6 game stretch last season (where we were excellent tbf) he was utterly shit and he's on record saying that it's because he basically had no clue what he was doing. Also, as you say he had the luxury to be able to reshape the squad, which he completely ***** up and is the reason why our squad is so unbalanced and that Garde can scarcely get anything out of them. So of course there is a difference in attitude, why wouldn't there be? One manager completely disemboweled the team through sheer ineptitude and the other has been asked to pick up the remains. One doesn't even have his coaching badges and has admitted he doesn't really know what the ***** he's doing and the other has pedigree in the game and has done a respectable job at one of the biggest clubs in France. Looking purely at the results over a 10 game period and trying to equte them is quite frankly myopic and borderline insulting to Garde. Sherwood was a developmental coach posing as a manager; an utter charlatan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam3773 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Article on the main site about Bernstein. Doesn't mention Garde at all. Always telling. Was exactly the same just before Tim got the sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It is an absurd comparison because what lambert left Sherwood and what Sherwood left Garde are miles apart. That's what I meant. Anyway, you clearly have a problem with my posts. You can use the ignore function if they bother you. On the contrary, i enjoy your posts.....i just don't always agree with them. However, i do agree, Lambert left a better squad on paper, but was very low in moral/confidence and despite the manager bounce only acheived 17th. Remi was left a worse squad arguably due to Reilly as opposed to sherwood I think it is probably splitting hairs to argue that Tims inheritence was that much better Than Remi's I just don't see them miles apart at all. Hence my opinion is ,your use of the word "absurd" was probably a bit of an emphatic word to use under the circumstances. but hey, just my take on it ps keep them posts a coming......there is an awful lot i do agree with you by the way. Edited March 21, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Sherwood also had about 20 games. And apart from a 5 or 6 game stretch last season (where we were excellent tbf) he was utterly shit and he's on record saying that it's because he basically had no clue what he was doing. Also, as you say he had the luxury to be able to reshape the squad, which he completely ***** up and is the reason why our squad is so unbalanced and that Garde can scarcely get anything out of them. So of course there is a difference in attitude, why wouldn't there be? One manager completely disemboweled the team through sheer ineptitude and the other has been asked to pick up the remains. One doesn't even have his coaching badges and has admitted he doesn't really know what the ***** he's doing and the other has pedigree in the game and has done a respectable job at one of the biggest clubs in France. Looking purely at the results over a 10 game period and trying to equte them is quite frankly myopic and borderline insulting to Garde. Sherwood was a developmental coach posing as a manager; an utter charlatan. Haha perfect example. So Garde can't be judged with another man's squad but Sherwood can. One doesn't have his coaching badges or a clue and is getting the same results as someone with pedigree in the game. Doesn't say much for Garde, which again I question why such differing attitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 How anybody can defend Garde is truly baffling. The worst, by far, manager to ever represent this club. Certainly in my lifetime. Make all the excuses you want for him, doesn't change the fact that he has got **** ALL out of a 25 man squad. Nothing. You could have put a sunday league manager in charge and they would struggle to worsen his record. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Haha perfect example. So Garde can't be judged with another man's squad but Sherwood can. One doesn't have his coaching badges or a clue and is getting the same results as someone with pedigree in the game. Doesn't say much for Garde, which again I question why such differing attitudes. This isn't about Garde, it's that people are saying Sherwood "did no worse" or "would have done better" than him. Even here, your post says Sherwood got the same results as Garde this season. He simply didn't - he did worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts