Genie Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 23 minutes ago, bickster said: What would you expect Labour could do about this? Party's will rarely get involved in this personal stuff, glass houses and stones etc If the Mail and the Telegraph ran stories about it, the Party would get worried, the Mirror and they couldn't care less, it's not their voters being told the story I’m not talking just specifically about this (although £100k of public funds is not a BJ personal issue). It’s all the stuff of the last couple of years, there seems to be almost no accountability anymore. Cummings, Patel, Hancock, Johnson, all doing stuff that would get any normal person, or most MP’s, sacked on the spot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted March 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 hours ago, markavfc40 said: It hasn't just happened over night. They have gradually pushed the boundaries of what is acceptable from politicians, paused, realised they have gotten away with it, laughed their bollocks/tits off (in Therese Coffeys case almost certainly both) , and then pushed the boundaries a little further and so on and so on. Yes, this pattern is very obvious isn't it: Governments always try to stack reports and inquiries to ensure favourable outcomes, but the government have realised that there is effectively no penalty for pushing this as far as it can go, and so that's exactly what they're doing. In terms of how to push back against it, I don't think there is a way. They're the government, they can do what they want when it comes to 'how they run the government'. There's no referee to blow a whistle and call a foul. You just have to hope that it eventually annoys enough people - and specifically the marginal voter - that they decide to desist, or at least make it less obvious. One small thing that could happen is that the media - the mainstream media, that normies consume - could make clear what is happening. Take for example this guy from ITV on the institutional racism report: Are ITV journalists going to actually reveal this on air, and spend time talking about how the government are seeking to make accountability impossible, or are their journalists going to whine about it on Twitter, to a few thousand highly-politically-engaged people who already get this dynamic anyway? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted March 31, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2021 One more thing to say, is that if anybody has witnessed this last week - hell, this last two years - and still thinks to themselves 'the inquiry into the government's handling of coronavirus is really going to blow the lid off things!', well, I've got a spectacular bridge to sell them. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 31, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: One more thing to say, is that if anybody has witnessed this last week - hell, this last two years - and still thinks to themselves 'the inquiry into the government's handling of coronavirus is really going to blow the lid off things!', well, I've got a spectacular bridge to sell them. Does it come with plants? If so, I'm in 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, bickster said: Does it come with plants? If so, I'm in [PC]I think they're called UCOs, now. [/PC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 31, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, snowychap said: [PC]I think they're called UCOs, now. [/PC] Unidentifiable Combustible Objects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) Starting to become quite clear that the Tories have an utterly ruthless and precise plan to transform Britain into what they want it to be (I mean, using a race report to get rid of 'BAME' and pit race Vs race?! - how evil and clever) - just cannot see how they can be countered - they are united whilst the opposition is eternally divided. I'd vote for them if I didn't dislike them so much. Edited March 31, 2021 by Jareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 31, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2021 Party from the right that is increasingly courting far right positions and pushing anything vaguely left as nonsense commissions report into racism headed by man that rejects existence of institutional racism in 'racism isn't a thing!' shocker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 8 minutes ago, Chindie said: Party from the right that is increasingly courting far right positions and pushing anything vaguely left as nonsense commissions report into racism headed by man that rejects existence of institutional racism in 'racism isn't a thing!' shocker. They're pushing the limits though aren't they? Not sure we've seen this much unaccountability before, and willingness to use every tool in their power to push an agenda, or such overt provocation of people who don't agree. And then there's an opposition who agree with about 65% of that. Tories are nailing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Jareth said: They're pushing the limits though aren't they? Not sure we've seen this much unaccountability before, and willingness to use every tool in their power to push an agenda, or such overt provocation of people who don't agree. And then there's an opposition who agree with about 65% of that. Tories are nailing it. They’re taking advantage of the post-truth/fact world we now live in. Nobody knows what to believe any more, you never know if what you’re hearing / reading really is the truth or someone’s version of it. In the absence of clarity and honesty, chancers like Boris and his scumbag frat gang can find easy ways to appear competent and credible. I don’t know where we go from here, can only see it getting worse and us ending up in any one of the various dystopian futures laid out in any number of sci-fi films. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 29 minutes ago, Jareth said: Starting to become quite clear that the Tories have an utterly ruthless and precise plan to transform Britain into what they want it to be (I mean, using a race report to get rid of 'BAME' and pit race Vs race?! - how evil and clever) - just cannot see how they can be countered - they are united whilst the opposition is eternally divided. I'd vote for them if I didn't dislike them so much. To be honest, I think the bolded is the exact opposite of the truth; I don't think you should mistake 'cynical manipulation of the media' to be the same as an 'utterly ruthless and precise plan to transform Britain', because they're not the same thing. Johnson has a massive majority, 80+ seats, which means that he can do almost anything he wants, yet the 2020 Queen's Speech was curiously devoid of big transformative policy items. We have brexited, and they have brought in a 'points-based immigration system', and they say they want to do something with judicial review but they haven't got round to it yet. That's not 'transformative', it's pretty small beer. What they are much more interested in is stoking right-wing culture war antagonism against whoever it is that angry pensioners don't like that day, which again I don't think we should confuse for a plan/agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Always worth remembering this glowing reference 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 32 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: To be honest, I think the bolded is the exact opposite of the truth; I don't think you should mistake 'cynical manipulation of the media' to be the same as an 'utterly ruthless and precise plan to transform Britain', because they're not the same thing. Johnson has a massive majority, 80+ seats, which means that he can do almost anything he wants, yet the 2020 Queen's Speech was curiously devoid of big transformative policy items. We have brexited, and they have brought in a 'points-based immigration system', and they say they want to do something with judicial review but they haven't got round to it yet. That's not 'transformative', it's pretty small beer. What they are much more interested in is stoking right-wing culture war antagonism against whoever it is that angry pensioners don't like that day, which again I don't think we should confuse for a plan/agenda. Do you not think that their plan/agenda is exactly what we're seeing but just the start of it? They're shutting down opposition by dividing it and using some of the worst gaslighting at government level ever seen - I worry about exactly what they propose to do with their 80 seat majority and that when the time comes the public will applaud them for it. Unless of course Johnson is simply planning to do what's popular and has no other motives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Jareth said: Do you not think that their plan/agenda is exactly what we're seeing but just the start of it? They're shutting down opposition by dividing it and using some of the worst gaslighting at government level ever seen - I worry about exactly what they propose to do with their 80 seat majority and that when the time comes the public will applaud them for it. Unless of course Johnson is simply planning to do what's popular and has no other motives... I think the bolded is basically right. Not so much that he has 'no other motives', but that he's lazy, not committed to particular projects, and more interested in consolidating his power than in exercising it in any specific way. That's not to say I don't worry, or that I think the Tories will be anything other than very right-wing, but governments usually run out of momentum quite quickly. 5 years (though actually a maximum of 4.5 this time) seems like a really long time, but bills take a long time to draft, pass and implement and reshuffles, scandals, unexpected events (a pandemic, for instance!) and the general grind of the news agenda slow governments down to a crawl. If they take this Parliament to its full term (itself far from a certainty), they probably have no more than two more queen's speeches to lay out an agenda, and I don't see any sign of a clear, detailed and unified legislative agenda taking shape. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: I don’t know where we go from here, can only see it getting worse and us ending up in any one of the various dystopian futures laid out in any number of sci-fi films. I'm hoping for the Scots to show the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Jareth said: I'm hoping for the Scots to show the way. If we’re relying on them we’re all doomed 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 55 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: What they are much more interested in is stoking right-wing culture war antagonism against whoever it is that angry pensioners don't like that day, which again I don't think we should confuse for a plan/agenda. "My Lords and Members of the House of Commons. My Government will undertake a bold agenda to ensure that the libs on Twitter are fully owned. My ministers will prevent the Islington wokerati from hating our flag and culture. My Government will continue to ensure that all SJWs and do-gooders cannot do us down with their cancel culture. May God bless you all" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Joe Jordan is the worst of them. Absolute coc oen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Chindie said: Party from the right that is increasingly courting far right positions and pushing anything vaguely left as nonsense commissions report into racism headed by man that rejects existence of institutional racism in 'racism isn't a thing!' shocker. Having read the summary of the report, they haven't actually said that, the opposite in fact, its just they have buried it right at the end of the summary. They have (unsurprisingly) been rather sneaky about how they have presented things. They have gone big on 'institutional racism' not being a thing, but then they are only applying that term to when 'deep-seated racism can be proven on a systemic level and not be used as a general catch-all phrase for any microaggression, witting or unwitting'. Of course it also helps when you downplay any suggestion to the contrary by basically blaming it on victims 'perception': "The word mistrust was repeated often as some witnesses from the police service, mental health, education and health services felt that the system was not on their side. Once we interrogated the data we did find some evidence of biases, but often it was a perception that the wider society could not be trusted." There's a lot of that just in the summary, and other stuff like 'what about the success stories', as though that somehow negates the bad stuff. Ultimately they are playing to their audience, and they know full well that with the help of compliant media friends, 'no institutional racism' is going to be taken as 'no racism', even though that is not the case. Hence the usual suspects on social media putting out 'see we are the most tolerant country, not racist at all, its just lefty snowflakes always playing the victim'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 25 minutes ago, andym said: the usual suspects on social media putting out 'see we are the most tolerant country, Whilst i agree with what you said for the most part, i do agree with the above sentence - that as a country the UK are probably far more tolerant of 'others' than most other countries in the world. Which is a great thing, even if we have further to go. You'd be amazing at how racist most other countries are. I guess one for the racism thread rather than here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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