The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

6 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

These bastards are sneaky. They know a GE is coming so they're creating a false problem with Election Fraud and trying to make it harder for people who vote against them, to vote.

Trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist? Ah, so that explains why it is standard practice in nearly every other country of the EU! 

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

Trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist? Ah, so that explains why it is standard practice in nearly every other country of the EU! 

Presumably there is quite a lot of overlap with those countries whose citizens all have a national identity card? 

Thus automatically providing everyone with the evidence that such a system requires. 

[snowychap]

11 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Presumably there is quite a lot of overlap with those countries whose citizens all have a national identity card? 

Thus automatically providing everyone with the evidence that such a system requires. 

The trailling of the suggestion has had all of the usual 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' stuff about ID cards being said by an awful lot of people. I would not be surprised if that's part of (if not the main driver behind) the idea.

[meregreen]

2 hours ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

Trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist? Ah, so that explains why it is standard practice in nearly every other country of the EU! 

What is the motivation for this unnecessary act though. They’ve simply taken their cue from that great defender of democracy Trump. It’s a blatant attempt to suppress voter turnout. There is no problem at the ballot box that requires this sledgehammer solution. Other countries require citizens to have national identity cards, we do not. This requirement to have photo ID will impact most on those who have no such item. The old, sick, vulnerable etc. We don’t have a problem of fraud at our elections, only with some of the bastards we elect.

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

Trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist? Ah, so that explains why it is standard practice in nearly every other country of the EU! 

Yes, trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. There appears to have been precisely one case of in-person voting fraud in local and national elections in 2017:

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/Fraud-allegations-data-report-2017.pdf (see sections 2.9, 2.14 and 2.20-2.24)

The alternative explanation is that trials of elections in which voters were asked to provide photo ID led to a 1.6% decline in turnout, and there were 46 constituencies in which the winning margin was less than 1.6%, and the Tories have noticed this. 

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

3 hours ago, meregreen said:

The old, sick, vulnerable etc.

Well we are in agreement that the old are probably going to be the demographic most affected by such a change. That would be the same old that are racist, bigoted, uneducated and stole the futures of our children. The same old whose death rate seems to have been offered up as a legitimate excuse for holding a second EU referendum.

I’m interested that everyone seems to think they would also be voting against the tories?

[NurembergVillan]

12 hours ago, snowychap said:

Beeb:

 

When we moved back to the UK from Canada our daughter had a Canadian passport as it was quicker to apply for one of those over there.  We had all the documentation to show she was ours but they still only admitted her on a tourist visa and gave us 6 months to get a UK passport or she would be deported.  Fun!

[Chindie]

The Queen genuinely looked and sounded like she was looking forward to the warm embrace of death rather than face doing this shit again during all that.

[StefanAVFC]

6 hours ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

Trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist? Ah, so that explains why it is standard practice in nearly every other country of the EU! 

Mandatory ID. Here if you don't have a passport or license because you don't need either, what do you do?

59 minutes ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

Well we are in agreement that the old are probably going to be the demographic most affected by such a change. That would be the same old that are racist, bigoted, uneducated and stole the futures of our children. The same old whose death rate seems to have been offered up as a legitimate excuse for holding a second EU referendum.

I’m interested that everyone seems to think they would also be voting against the tories?

You seem to be projecting onto us here.

Whatever makes voting as open for everyone to participate is good IMO. Same as the voting system should be representative, even if it means some headbangers in parliament.

[snowychap]

31 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

When we moved back to the UK from Canada our daughter had a Canadian passport as it was quicker to apply for one of those over there.  We had all the documentation to show she was ours but they still only admitted her on a tourist visa and gave us 6 months to get a UK passport or she would be deported.  Fun!

Not good.

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

4 hours ago, meregreen said:

The old, sick, vulnerable etc.

Well we are in agreement that the old are probably going to be the demographic most affected by such a change.

You appear to have missed out the sick, the vulnerable and the etceteras (which would include the poor).

 

[snowychap]

 

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

I’m interested that everyone seems to think they would also be voting against the tories?

Not sure about that?

I took it as more the usual difference between the leftie types thinking about the principle of the thing and the right about how they can gain advantage from it.

[Xann]

[meregreen]

2 hours ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

Well we are in agreement that the old are probably going to be the demographic most affected by such a change. That would be the same old that are racist, bigoted, uneducated and stole the futures of our children. The same old whose death rate seems to have been offered up as a legitimate excuse for holding a second EU referendum.

I’m interested that everyone seems to think they would also be voting against the tories?

I’m 64. Voted remain, have never voted Tory in my life.Don’t pigeon hole people by age.Like I say, look at the motivation for this. There is NO voter fraud problem in this country. It’s cynical at best. Gerrymandering copied straight from the Trump guide to winning elections. We don’t need or want it.

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

You appear to have missed out the sick, the vulnerable and the etceteras (which would include the poor).

 

*This is probably more inflammatory than I intend. Also marks me out as out of touch and a bit of a**hole (which are both fair)*

I deliberately excluded them as I would have thought the ‘benefit classes’ would have been well versed in producing ID if nothing else?! 

[blandy]

25 minutes ago, meregreen said:

There is NO voter fraud problem in this country

Not disagreeing with the condemnation for what the tories are proposing, but this assertion here is not sustainable, is it?

Firstly, you're right, the level of detected voter fraud is in overall terms very small. It's the undetected part that is obiously not known.

The current process for voting in person is to walk in, tell them "your" name and address, then vote. That's it. It's about as unsecure as can be. ID would make it more secure, a bit.

If they were serious about making voting more secure and easy for the elderly and easier to register and all that, then you'd think that computers and the like might be involved, and even that internet thing.

This ID cards ruse is just about self interest, them thinking more poor pensioners, poor folk generally and students will less likely have passports or Driving licenses and so blocking them helps the tories. It's nob all to do with sorting out conceivable problems with fraud or the voting system overall.

 

[tonyh29]

25 minutes ago, blandy said:

If they were serious about making voting more secure and easy for the elderly and easier to register and all that, then you'd think that computers and the like might be involved, and even that internet thing.

 

I can just picture you going into vote using a computer and deleting the whole voting system

 

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

I deliberately excluded them as I would have thought the ‘benefit classes’ would have been well versed in producing ID if nothing else?! 

There are apparently around 5m adults in the UK with neither passport nor driving license. 

I'm not all that fussed whether those 5m are old, racist Conservatives or youthful, lay-about Labour scroungers (delete according to your prejudice of choice) - if they are registered to vote then they shouldn't have that denied to them.

Edited October 14, 2019 by ml1dch

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

*This is probably more inflammatory than I intend. Also marks me out as out of touch and a bit of a**hole (which are both fair)*

I deliberately excluded them as I would have thought the ‘benefit classes’ would have been well versed in producing ID if nothing else?! 

On the basis of your second sentence, I can't take issue with your first.

To address the issue at hand, photo ID ≠ ID. A huge number of people do not have passports and/or driving licences.

In the briefing notes (available as pdf from the link on this page), it does say:

Quote

Any voter who does not have an approved form of ID will be able to apply, free of charge, for a local electoral identity document.

One would imagine that it would have to be local authorities who had to supply these documents at further cost to them having already had their funding seriously hammered over the past decade.

It also says 'apply'. One should always be wary about governments using 'apply' - see EU settlement scheme.

Edited October 14, 2019 by snowychap