ferguson1 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 The table doesn't lie does it! Best team finishes top, worst team finishes bottom and quite simply we are the worst team. Whether it be Garde in charge or someone else, I still think we would be going down as this team is just so mentally weak. As I have said in the Garde thread, my concern now is whether Garde is the man to bring us back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 37 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: What difference does that make? Ability wise they are far superior. Not only that but they are mentally superior too, quite clearly. Get Eddie Howe at Aston Villa and it wouldn't take long for our squad to start looking like the stronger one in ability and mentally. I'd like to see what Sherwood and Garde would have got out of Bournemouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 It's not simply the players. We haven't just gotten every recruitment wrong in the past 7 years (bar Benteke). There is a reason players improve when they leave here. It's the development. It's the confidence. It's the boost that comes from playing for a stable club that nourishes your talent. We simply don't do that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 23 minutes ago, Michael118 said: Get Eddie Howe at Aston Villa and it wouldn't take long for our squad to start looking like the stronger one in ability and mentally. I'd like to see what Sherwood and Garde would have got out of Bournemouth. Football is littered with managers who have flattered to deceive before the wheels fall off and many, many more who are successful at one club but not another. I've no doubt that Eddie Howe with a settled squad that he has had for years and built up through the divisions is a better manager than Remi Garde is with a squad of useless reprobates that he basically had chucked at him. Whether the reverse is true is still completely up for debate. It will probably never be answerable. Worth mentioning Garry Monk at this stage, IMO. How about Paul Lambert and Norwich? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 2, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 2, 2016 Eddie Howe is absolutely identical to Paul Lambert at Norwich. He MIGHT be a really good manager. He could quite easily be awful here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 We need better than Garde next season IMO. This team is just embarrassing, I think we're well on course to crack the top 5 worst ever teams in terms of points tally, I really do not see us getting more than 25 points, and Garde has played his part in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakid007 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Club is rotten. Coaches are poo. Players are overpaid mentally weak pussys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 It wouldn't have mattered if the manager was Eddie Howe or Eddie Van Halen. I doubt any manager could get players like Gabby, Lescott, N'Zogbia, Richardson, Sinclair or Grealish to put a shift in. Nor could that manager make the likes of Hutton or Richards smarter players, Guzan or Bunn better in the air, or build a functional midfield out of the avliable players. Another manager might have had better luck with injuries, but that's about it. Although Eddie from Iron Maiden might have had them running for the hills... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 3 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: What difference does that make? Ability wise they are far superior. Not only that but they are mentally superior too, quite clearly. Bourmemouth are better manaaged. Eddie Howe and Garde no comparision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 13 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Football is littered with managers who have flattered to deceive before the wheels fall off and many, many more who are successful at one club but not another. I've no doubt that Eddie Howe with a settled squad that he has had for years and built up through the divisions is a better manager than Remi Garde is with a squad of useless reprobates that he basically had chucked at him. Whether the reverse is true is still completely up for debate. It will probably never be answerable. Worth mentioning Garry Monk at this stage, IMO. How about Paul Lambert and Norwich? I go through Bournemouth's squad and it looks like relegation standard. They continue to get results and good performances out of their championship quality players and I put that down to Howe's management. It's backed up by my impression of him and his personal qualities. I go through our squad and it looks a level above. Our performances though are consistently dire. I look at the 2 managers we appointed and both are uninspiring to say the least. The natural conclusion is it's the manager who is failing. I'm sure there is some advantage of having a settled squad which was built up through the divisions but you won't convince me that is major reason for their success. If we swapped Sherwood and Garde for Howe I am confident the results would be close to reversed. Lambert failed here for similar reasons Garde is failing now - mainly inability to motivate or inspire the players. I didn't follow Lambert at Norwich closely enough to know exactly what happened there. Howe has shown he can get a below average group of players motivated and punching above their weight. This along with the personal qualities he displays makes me confident he would be a good chance to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Bournemouth's squad looks relegation standard because you are not accustomed to the names. They have proven themselves anything but under a settled manager who has been at the club for years and has been afforded the opportunity to build the squad as he sees fit. The natural conclusion to draw is that there is no conclusion. Only supposition. If I said I think Eddies Howe would have done an even worse job than Garde under the circumstances (without any evidence to back it up) that would be just as impossible to prove. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) I was just as unaccustomed to the names at Watford and overall they are not relegation standard. I hadn't heard of Odion Ighalo yet it took me a few seconds in his first PL match to figure out he was a player. I am the last person to look at a player's name or reputation and use that as any kind of basis to form an opinion. There may be no way to prove it unless it actually happened but it's my conclusion and it doesn't mean it's incorrect. I have a lot of confidence in it and am here to share it. Edited March 2, 2016 by Michael118 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Just now, Michael118 said: I was just as unaccustomed to the names at Watford and overall they are not relegation standard. I hadn't heard of Odion Ighalo yet it took me a few seconds in his first PL match to figure out he was a player. I am the last person to look at a player's name or reputation and use that as any kind of basis to form an opinion. There may be no way to prove it unless it actually happened but it's my conclusion and it doesn't mean it's incorrect. I have a lot of confidence in it and am here to share it. I am here to disagree. A football team is much, much more than it's individual parts. There are some extremely important parts missing from this squad, we are a car without a wheel. You may look at one or two individuals and think they seem too good for this, but in reality they are a squad that appears to have been cobbled together on the back of a fag packet. Bournemouth's squad has been built up over the course of the last 8 years by Howe if you put his 1 year sabbatical at Burnley aside. There is literally no fair comparison to be made. Much like Paul Lambert and Norwich before his move to Aston Villa. I noticed you brushed that aside. Why did he fail when he had such eye catching success at Norwich and what makes you so confident the same would not happen to Howe? Or any manager thrown into this cesspit of a football club. The house that Lerner knocked down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Eddie Howe is absolutely identical to Paul Lambert at Norwich. He MIGHT be a really good manager. He could quite easily be awful here. I've been saying this for months, football has these Eddie Howe success stories nearly every year, that manager who over achieves at 1 club and is then touted as the next big deal phil brown, aidy boothroyd, Paul Jewell, Chris Colman, Tony Mowbray, Garry monk, Paul lambert it's worth pointing out Howe had a few years at burnley without doing much, wait & see when Bournemouth go ona bad run and see how he deals with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I am here to disagree. A football team is much, much more than it's individual parts. There are some extremely important parts missing from this squad, we are a car without a wheel. You may look at one or two individuals and think they seem too good for this, but in reality they are a squad that appears to have been cobbled together on the back of a fag packet. Bournemouth's squad has been built up over the course of the last 8 years by Howe if you put his 1 year sabbatical at Burnley aside. There is literally no fair comparison to be made. Much like Paul Lambert and Norwich before his move to Aston Villa. I noticed you brushed that aside. Why did he fail when he had such eye catching success at Norwich and what makes you so confident the same would not happen to Howe? Or any manager thrown into this cesspit of a football club. The house that Lerner knocked down. Of course it's more than it's individual parts but you can't underestimate the importance of quality. Quality parts which can work together is ideal. We have those parts and they can work together. We haven't had a manager who has figured out how to use them or get them going. We have more than two players with quality. I think we are too far apart on the quality of the squad to even go into it. I didn't brush anything aside I genuinely didn't follow Norwich closely enough in that period to say what made them successful. I went through the reasons I think Howe would be a success in my last post and I went through the reasons I think Allardyce, Pulis and others would have been successful in the Remi Garde thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Jimzk5 said: I've been saying this for months, football has these Eddie Howe success stories nearly every year, that manager who over achieves at 1 club and is then touted as the next big deal phil brown, aidy boothroyd, Paul Jewell, Chris Colman, Tony Mowbray, Garry monk, Paul lambert it's worth pointing out Howe had a few years at burnley without doing much, wait & see when Bournemouth go ona bad run and see how he deals with that They already did earlier in the season and he managed to turn things around even with most of his best players out injured. It did it by learning from mistakes and astute tactical changes.The man is very very good! Edited March 2, 2016 by PaulC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 7 hours ago, R.Bear said: Yes the players are shit but are you saying Bmouths are superior? Really? Most of them have zero PL experience when virtually all of ours do. Almost none of them would ever have played in the PL if they didnt get promoted with the team. I guarantee that most VTers couldn't name 5 of their players in August. Their squad finished four places below ours in the pyramid last season, and we sold the one genuinely excellent player we had after that. The notion that their squad is better than ours isn't in itself unbelievable or even surprising. It's sad that we're so far behind such a small club, but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 What's crazy is we are still only 3 wins away from 17th. You'd think getting 3 wins in the previous fixtures we had was do-able, but the players must really want to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I'm amazed people are still posting in this thread, we'll struggle to get much over 20 points. In fact if looking at the table 25 points gets you out of the bottom 3 currently, I don't even think we'll reach that by the final game. The Liverpool game has well and truly finished off the club for this season, you can see the players mentally don't believe anymore. There was still a little glimmer after the Norwich game there I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) the team has been a few wins away all season. they were a few wins away when they had a decent run of games. they are in this position because they don't win games never mind win games when it matters. it isn't going to change. they are down. goodnight. Edited March 2, 2016 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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