Demitri_C Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 11 hours ago, Zatman said: watched a few on Sky in last few weeks to get accustomed to it and agree its not a brilliant standard. What we do need though is player with the right attitude and skill and we be OK We all thought we would comfortably stay up this year. A lot can change in 9 months. Firstly we are not use to playing so many more games. Secondly we will have a lot of midland derbies and all will raise their game against us. It won't be easy but if we can keep a majority of our squad I think we can definitely finish top three. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Could Be Rotterdam Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 I hate this. For weeks I've been resigned to going down, accepted our fate and started planning my route to Walsall for next year. But the performance yesterday was our best 90 minute performance of the season, and if we can beat Norwich and Sunderland I know I'll have actual hope again. And the bit I hate is that I feel like it's doable, and I'm now getting nervous about games again. I've got quite used to just watching our games and not really caring about the result anymore. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Could Be Rotterdam Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Well let me help you out and put that hope back in the box. we are further behind now than when Garde joined us we have not won in 17 games thats four months ago meaning in the second half of the season we have to win around 8 games and draw five or six, that's top 6 form and the last time we hit top six form was six years ago with a vastly superior team the last two times we have been bottom at Christmas we have gone down 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: We all thought we would comfortably stay up this year. I really don't think that was the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Could Be Rotterdam Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Well let me help you out and put that hope back in the box. we are further behind now than when Garde joined us we have not won in 17 games thats four months ago meaning in the second half of the season we have to win around 8 games and draw five or six, that's top 6 form and the last time we hit top six form was six years ago with a vastly superior team the last two times we have been bottom at Christmas we have gone down You surely have to admit that we are improving weekly? Yesterday was our first 90 minute performance. If we win the next two things will look a lot brighter and I don't think I'll be alone in believing there's a chance we won't be utterly embarrassed. Also, out of curiosity, when were we last bottom at Christmas? I'd hazard a guess that most teams hold the record of going down when bottom at Christmas. But as we've seen the last few seasons, mostly for the worse admittedly, records are made to be broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 We were pretty **** when Garde joined us to be honest. At least under him there are signs of improvement that we can take into next season when we will undoubtedly be in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted December 27, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) I don't see the need in constantly telling people who are trying to be positive that we're definitely/already relegated. We know. You've told us. Numerous times. Why can't the negativity be put away until the end of the season when you can come back and gladly say "told you so" whilst laughing and pointing because you were right on the internet. Edited December 27, 2015 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 36 minutes ago, Richard said: Well let me help you out and put that hope back in the box. we are further behind now than when Garde joined us we have not won in 17 games thats four months ago meaning in the second half of the season we have to win around 8 games and draw five or six, that's top 6 form and the last time we hit top six form was six years ago with a vastly superior team the last two times we have been bottom at Christmas we have gone down Wow, this is far too logical to be in this thread mate, well done. What I don't quite understand is this notion that we are 'improving' and that this will bode well for 'next season'. Firstly, to be improving in what is almost certainly a relegation season is very much scant consolation in my opinion. Secondly, there's a very, very high chance that any half way decent performer will be off if/when we do go down. I'd wager quite a lot of money that the likes of Ayew, Veretout, Gil, Traore, Richards, Amavi (OK depends on how long the guy will be out) and even Gana will stick around. Most of these players probably have relegation release clauses in place, so we won't even recoup what we spent on them. Point being, we will not be in good shape if/when we go down, it will be a total disaster and whatever 'improvements' made under Garde this season, will not carry over for next season, because a lot of this team will not be here anyway and we will be back to square one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted December 27, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 27, 2015 8 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Wow, this is far too logical to be in this thread mate, well done. What I don't quite understand is this notion that we are 'improving' and that this will bode well for 'next season'. Firstly, to be improving in what is almost certainly a relegation season is very much scant consolation in my opinion. Secondly, there's a very, very high chance that any half way decent performer will be off if/when we do go down. I'd wager quite a lot of money that the likes of Ayew, Veretout, Gil, Traore, Richards, Amavi (OK depends on how long the guy will be out) and even Gana will stick around. Most of these players probably have relegation release clauses in place, so we won't even recoup what we spent on them. Point being, we will not be in good shape if/when we go down, it will be a total disaster and whatever 'improvements' made under Garde this season, will not carry over for next season, because a lot of this team will not be here anyway and we will be back to square one. I doing by that even Villa would put a relegation release clause in a contract for less then we paid for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted December 27, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 27, 2015 Just now, Rds1983 said: I doubt that even Villa would put a relegation release clause in a contract for less then we paid for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Just now, Rds1983 said: It's pretty standard stuff. I mean in all likelihood we have our own protection, which is some sort of wage drop if we go down, so these things don't come for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 27, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2015 This talk about top 6 form is mostly bollocks though. We have 9 points to make up yes, those can theoretically be made up in 3 games. Those 3 games do not need to be in sequence. We need to be 3 wins better than Norwich and Newcastle. 2 wins better than Sunderland. From there we only need to equal their form. Forget about the rest, it's headache inducing. This next week is HUGE. We've given ourselves a good start. Don't worry about me or anyone of the same frame of mind being disappointed. We are big boys, we can handle it. UTV. Bring on tomorrow. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 It's not really. History has shown the rough number of points we will need. Closing the gap is one thing, remaining better than those teams is another. To do both its going to take a good run of form till the end of the year. A run of form we haven't seen from this team in years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 It's not really. History has shown the rough number of points we will need. Closing the gap is one thing, remaining better than those teams is another. To do both its going to take a good run of form till the end of the year. A run of form we haven't seen from this team in years. Sure. But it won't be "top 6 form" because getting into the top 6 takes 38 games, not 20. I don't doubt it's a monumentally difficult task and most likely beyond us now. But say the implausible does happen and we win the next 2 and close the gap to 5 points, as an example. Do we suddenly switch to talking about needing top 12 form? No, because it's silly. IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) 12 minutes ago, useless said: The target should always be to win the next match, and that's always possible. Ye true. Edited December 27, 2015 by useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 28 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: This next week is HUGE. We've given ourselves a good start. Don't worry about me or anyone of the same frame of mind being disappointed. We are big boys, we can handle it. UTV. Bring on tomorrow. I think even huge is an understatement. Whether you believe we have zero chance of staying up or that we still have some hope I think what we can all agree is that fail to win the next two and we are done for. We have kicked the can down the road for as long as we can now. Watford was must win, then Newcastle became must win, then West Ham. This is it now. We simply have to win tomorrow and I am sure Remi and the players know that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jackbauer24 Posted December 27, 2015 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) It was our best performance of the season yesterday against an injury hit midtable team at home. And we still couldn't win. Not because of the referee, not because of the tactics, not because of bad luck, not because we didn't 'click' but simply because we're not good enough. We don't have enough quality. People can talk about numbers, form, runs, confidence, improvements all they like, we're never all going to agree. There are, almost admirable, people on here who will truly believe it's possible until it becomes mathematically not. There are others who will feel we're doomed even if we win five in a row as it'd be unsustainable form. But to me, form comes from quality and we have very little. Something impressive needs to happen in the January transfer window to make me change my mind. Edited December 27, 2015 by jackbauer24 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phumfeinz Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 10 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said: It was our best performance of the season yesterday against an injury hit midtable team at home. And we still couldn't win. Not because of the referee, not because of the tactics, not because of bad luck, not because we didn't 'click' but simply because we're not good enough. We don't have enough quality. People can talk about numbers, form, runs, confidence, improvements all they like, we're never all going to agree. There are, almost admirable, people on here who will truly believe it's possible until it becomes mathematically not. There are others who will feel we're doomed even if we win five in a row as it'd be unsustainable form. But to me, form comes from quality and we have very little. Something impressive needs to happen in the January transfer window to make me change my mind. Exactly. The problem is that even when we play the best we can, we still can't win. Because we're not good enough, and that means relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 57 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: I don't see the need in constantly telling people who are trying to be positive that we're definitely/already relegated. We know. You've told us. Numerous times. Why can't the negativity be put away until the end of the season when you can come back and gladly say "told you so" whilst laughing and pointing because you were right on the internet. I honestly think a lot of people (like me) realistically think we are going to get relegated but deep down can't really believe that it's possible and therefore keep stating that we will be relegated to try and hit home the reality. Or maybe that's just me. I kinda know we will go down but I honestly can't even picture us in the Championship. I almost feel we are completely entitled to be a Premier League team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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