The Tim Sherwood Thread

[VillaCas]

I know that there are still those out there that feel Sherwood should be given more time - I'm curious as to what results over the next few games would convert them to the Sherwood Out camp?  We have Chelsea, Swansea, Spurs, MC and Everton coming up. In the best of all possible world i can see 3 points from that run of games but in all honesty I doubt we will get any. Would 7 points from 13 games, for example be enough to continue to persevere in your opinion?

 

Hi. As I'm one I'll give you my view.

13 games is a third of a season, certainly a more reasonable time to judge than presently.

I would have judged him a relative success on more than just results, but in terms purely of points I'd want 17.

On that basis, he needs 13 points. However given the bad start it would be now mean a more unreasonable 13 from 5, top 4 form. So, as long as other aspects improved, I'd accept 7-8 points and a third way tally of  12-13, or 4 less than I originally would have wanted.

So 2 wins and 1 or 2 draws from the fixtures you said, plus signs of a more settled and positive stlye of play.

If that don't happen, I'll likely join the " out" camp....which by then maybe already got its way !

Thanks for responding. After 13 games, like you, I was looking for 15-17 points. As after 8 games we are on a dismal 4 points this is very unlikely to happen. Realistically we are unlikely to get anything from Chelsea or MC so that leaves us looking for two wins and a draw against Swansea, Spuds and Everton - I'd be delighted to say I was wrong if this happens but I think the odds are 20-1 against. By this time we could easily be 4 points from 13 and need a miracle from a new manager.

If there was any sign of a turnaround I'd be willing to be more patient but all we are getting is indecision and bullshit.  To me giving Sherwood any further time means waving goodbye to our premiership status

Time will tell - I truly hope that you are right and I am wrong

[Marka Ragnos]

I really don't think the players are the problem. 

I think they are a big part of the problem

I think they're the middle-sized part of the problem. 

I think we have a better squad now than we have had for a few years.

Apart from Richards, Amavi and Gil, nobody has looked very convincing this season. That's a worry

I think Ayew and Veretout will come around. They're not old.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Plastic Man

[BOF]

Sherwood hasn't been sacked yet, reading the last few pages, you'd have thought he'd been fired, already.

Sometimes as Villa fans all we have is hope.

[TrinityRoadSteps]

Well at least there's one thing we all agree on.

 

NO TO 'ARRY

[tylerreznik]

I daresay as soon as Sherwood is removed the players will improve imeadiately, you can see in their performances there is no leadership or direction from the coaching staff, add the weekly formation changes and lack of real tactical planning it's no wonder they are struggling to find form.

His latest comments about missing out on his top transfer targets this summer has just pushed me over the edge, just so disrespectful to the squad and really the last thing a manager should be saying given our current plight.  First they aren't fit enough, now they aren't good enough because they weren't the guys I really wanted....  Get real buddy...  

What little respect he had left in the dressing room has surely evaporated now.  Comments like this are really a true measure of Sherwood.  Sadly I think it will only get worse before action is taken.

as somebody else said every day this clown remains at the club relegation becomes all the more likely.

As purverse and shameful as it sounds, I actually kind of hope Chelsea flog us by a cricket score because Fox and co would have act and it would give the press reason to jump all over Sherwood, he's clearly already looking for an out and making excuses.  Maybe a departure by mutual agreement so he can save some face.

[BOF]

Agreed tylerreznik, on the basis that we'll probably lose to Chelsea anyway, if an absolute battering would expedite proceedings then bring it on.

[VillaCas]

 

Apart from Richards, Amavi and Gil, nobody has looked very convincing this season. That's a worry

We've got a squad who with the correct management look comfortably capable of finishing 10th-14th and away from the drama of relegation  It's just difficult for them to look good playing in an ever changing formation alongside an ever changing cast of team mates.  Lescott for example was WBA player of the year last year and yet looks awful so far - his fault or Sherwoods?  Grealish, Veretout, Gana, Traore, Sanchez are all good players who would flourish under a competent manager

[KHV]

 

Apart from Richards, Amavi and Gil, nobody has looked very convincing this season. That's a worry

We've got a squad who with the correct management look comfortably capable of finishing 10th-14th and away from the drama of relegation  It's just difficult for them to look good playing in an ever changing formation alongside an ever changing cast of team mates.  Lescott for example was WBA player of the year last year and yet looks awful so far - his fault or Sherwoods?  Grealish, Veretout, Gana, Traore, Sanchez are all good players who would flourish under a competent manager

I think Lescott is just past it, a bit like Rio at QPR. Grealish and Traore are very young and inexperienced but there is some potential there but I'm not sure we shoud be relying on them. Veretout looks to me like he won't cut it, and I'm unsure about Gana too. I think Sanchez is dreadful if I'm honest

[NeilS]

Odds on favorite for the Sunderland job, some reports suggesting he's going there until the end of the season. I just hope we don't end up with Nigel Pearson.

Foreign coach with new ideas please.

Save that for when we're a boring midtable team. Too risky

I understand this point of view, but with the amount of foreign players bought in during the summer transfer window maybe a foreign manager wouldn't be such a bad idea? Also, changing from a British to Foreign manager mid season didn't hurt Southampton, although at the time I thought that appointment was the final nail in their coffin. Also the last three managers we have had have all been British and that hasn't helped our performance at all, maybe a time to change things around and think outside the box.

The sooner we stop the expectation that the next manager should be someone to lead us for decades, the better.

We need to take much smaller steps and look shorter term with appointments. 

The short term goal of this club should be to re-establish ourselves as a premier league team. Not a shit team scrambling around to survive every year. 
If a foreign coach fits the spec of a manager who can do that then obviously I'm fine with it.

But we're not in a position to be gambling on the next big thing from the continent, imo. It's all well and good saying we want "attractive" or "progressive" football, but I couldn't give a shit what we look like when we play. At this stage I want results that keep us in the league.

We don't NEED the next big thing. Continuously searching for that is why we're appoint unproven chancers like Sherwood. What we need is experience and proven ability to make a team play well relatively consistently. If it means we're boring for a season or two then so be it. I'd much rathe rbe borign and safe to give us somewhere to build from than attractive and relegated.

I agree, no more up and coming managers We have had our fill of those. It doesn't matter to me where they come from, I just thought with the influx of foreign players that maybe a foreign coach could get them playing to their potential.

I wouldn't be overly disappointed with Allardyce, as he is a safe pair of hands and will most likely get us to a steady mid table position. If not him, then we are starting to struggle on the British managers front, unless we go and take a manager who is already employed like Pardew, Hughes or Moyes. If none of those can be tempted then we have to gamble on a foreign coach who is experienced at a big-ish club. 

[bose]

Odds on favorite for the Sunderland job, some reports suggesting he's going there until the end of the season. I just hope we don't end up with Nigel Pearson.

Foreign coach with new ideas please.

Save that for when we're a boring midtable team. Too risky

I understand this point of view, but with the amount of foreign players bought in during the summer transfer window maybe a foreign manager wouldn't be such a bad idea? Also, changing from a British to Foreign manager mid season didn't hurt Southampton, although at the time I thought that appointment was the final nail in their coffin. Also the last three managers we have had have all been British and that hasn't helped our performance at all, maybe a time to change things around and think outside the box.

The sooner we stop the expectation that the next manager should be someone to lead us for decades, the better.

We need to take much smaller steps and look shorter term with appointments. 

The short term goal of this club should be to re-establish ourselves as a premier league team. Not a shit team scrambling around to survive every year. 
If a foreign coach fits the spec of a manager who can do that then obviously I'm fine with it.

But we're not in a position to be gambling on the next big thing from the continent, imo. It's all well and good saying we want "attractive" or "progressive" football, but I couldn't give a shit what we look like when we play. At this stage I want results that keep us in the league.

We don't NEED the next big thing. Continuously searching for that is why we're appoint unproven chancers like Sherwood. What we need is experience and proven ability to make a team play well relatively consistently. If it means we're boring for a season or two then so be it. I'd much rathe rbe borign and safe to give us somewhere to build from than attractive and relegated.

I agree, no more up and coming managers We have had our fill of those. It doesn't matter to me where they come from, I just thought with the influx of foreign players that maybe a foreign coach could get them playing to their potential.

I wouldn't be overly disappointed with Allardyce, as he is a safe pair of hands and will most likely get us to a steady mid table position. If not him, then we are starting to struggle on the British managers front, unless we go and take a manager who is already employed like Pardew, Hughes or Moyes. If none of those can be tempted then we have to gamble on a foreign coach who is experienced at a big-ish club. 

Pardew and Hughes would be mad to leave their current clubs and join us. Especially Pardew. No chance.

[Grasshopper]

Hi Tim, still here?

 

Hi Tom, please!

 

I don't know who it was that suggested we have a filter on "still here" but could mods please make it happen?

 

These posts are ever so tiring and ever so pointless.

Then it wouldn't be a forum where people could freely say what they want.

 

[Marka Ragnos]

I daresay as soon as Sherwood is removed the players will improve imeadiately, you can see in their performances there is no leadership or direction from the coaching staff, add the weekly formation changes and lack of real tactical planning it's no wonder they are struggling to find form.

His latest comments about missing out on his top transfer targets this summer has just pushed me over the edge, just so disrespectful to the squad and really the last thing a manager should be saying given our current plight.  First they aren't fit enough, now they aren't good enough because they weren't the guys I really wanted....  Get real buddy...  

What little respect he had left in the dressing room has surely evaporated now.  Comments like this are really a true measure of Sherwood.  Sadly I think it will only get worse before action is taken.

as somebody else said every day this clown remains at the club relegation becomes all the more likely.

As purverse and shameful as it sounds, I actually kind of hope Chelsea flog us by a cricket score because Fox and co would have act and it would give the press reason to jump all over Sherwood, he's clearly already looking for an out and making excuses.  Maybe a departure by mutual agreement so he can save some face.

No, thank you, but I won't "go there." Never. This club must fight, every minute of every match of every season. The ghosts are watching.

[KHV]

 

Apart from Richards, Amavi and Gil, nobody has looked very convincing this season. That's a worry

We've got a squad who with the correct management look comfortably capable of finishing 10th-14th.

Hmmmmmm............

[Marka Ragnos]

 

Apart from Richards, Amavi and Gil, nobody has looked very convincing this season. That's a worry

We've got a squad who with the correct management look comfortably capable of finishing 10th-14th and away from the drama of relegation  It's just difficult for them to look good playing in an ever changing formation alongside an ever changing cast of team mates.  Lescott for example was WBA player of the year last year and yet looks awful so far - his fault or Sherwoods?  Grealish, Veretout, Gana, Traore, Sanchez are all good players who would flourish under a competent manager

Yes, I agree, they must be very confused.

[Stevo985]

 

Apart from Richards, Amavi and Gil, nobody has looked very convincing this season. That's a worry

We've got a squad who with the correct management look comfortably capable of finishing 10th-14th.

Hmmmmmm............

If we don't then it was Tim who assembled it, so he should be sacked for that.

 

FWIW I was happy with his signings. I agree with VC. This squad is capable of finishing 14th. It's hardly a lofty ambition.

[Marka Ragnos]

I just hope that if Sherwood goes, he is let go with dignity and fairness. That's so important, folks. We don't want to seem like a mob with pitchforks and torches, running him out of town like some ghoul. We don't have a lot to offer a new manager at a the moment. Our club's way of doing things and indeed our fans need to keep it classy. We need to keep projecting dignity and passion -- both.

The conversation should be HOW rather than anything else, because the IF conversation has almost (but not quite) ended.

I hate to quote JRR Tolkien, but ...

"The quest stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little and it will fail to the ruin of all ... Yet hope remains while the company is true."

Edited October 8, 2015 by Plastic Man

[KHV]

 

Apart from Richards, Amavi and Gil, nobody has looked very convincing this season. That's a worry

We've got a squad who with the correct management look comfortably capable of finishing 10th-14th.

Hmmmmmm............

If we don't then it was Tim who assembled it, so he should be sacked for that.

 

FWIW I was happy with his signings. I agree with VC. This squad is capable of finishing 14th. It's hardly a lofty ambition.

There was an element of excitement with the signings for me as I didn't know anything about them, now I have seen a few of them play it's fair to say the excitement has turned to fear

[Marka Ragnos]

 

Apart from Richards, Amavi and Gil, nobody has looked very convincing this season. That's a worry

We've got a squad who with the correct management look comfortably capable of finishing 10th-14th.

Hmmmmmm............

If we don't then it was Tim who assembled it, so he should be sacked for that.

 

FWIW I was happy with his signings. I agree with VC. This squad is capable of finishing 14th. It's hardly a lofty ambition.

There was an element of excitement with the signings for me as I didn't know anything about them, now I have seen a few of them play it's fair to say the excitement has turned to fear

I started with the fear. Now I'm feeling slight excitement. 

[Nabby]

http://www.football365.com/news/is-he-a-good-manager-is-he-a-manager

It’s not just that we don’t know if Tim Sherwood is a good manager, more that we don’t even know if he’s a manager at all. Things aren’t going well at Aston Villa…

When Tim Sherwood was appointed as Aston Villa manager last season, he turned up at his unveiling press conference looking like a man who had slept in the office after a work party, eyes bloodshot and stubble at five o’clock. Or, as one wag on the internet put it, he looked ‘like he’s about to appeal for the safe return of his stepdaughter, but you already know he did it.’ This, you’ll remember, was after he’d been off for eight months following his dismissal by Spurs, so one wondered how he would look after the stresses and strains of Premier League management took their toll.

We are now discovering exactly that, as Sherwood shuffles out after every defeat, his face a curious mixture of disconsolate deflation, abject fear but also a steely cockiness that may or may not be put on. He looks a bit like a man off on an extreme sports holiday with the lads who has forgot to take out any travel insurance; behind the facade is absolute terror, but his default bravado won’t stop him sinking that first pint before the 7am flight. Compare Sherwood’s visage with Paul Lambert, who looks about ten years younger these days than when he occupied the Villa big chair.

Aston Villa are, all in all, a piping hot mess at the moment. They haven’t won in the league since the opening day, losing six of their last seven matches and the only brief moment of respite, the single draw in that spell, was against Sunderland, whose incompetence (along with Newcastle’s) is the only thing keeping Villa off the bottom of the table.

This run in itself doesn’t prove that Sherwood is a fraud, a man who has reached his current position by riding a wave of his own ego but who doesn’t actually have the first idea of what he’s doing, but the signs aren’t good. Not quite so much in the results, but that in the last few games Sherwood has looked as if he’s groping around in the dark, like a man hunting for his spectacles at 2am. He seems to try different tactics and approaches in every game, usually without a huge amount of logic, and according to FootballLineups.com he has used five different formations in those seven games (the last, a 3-5-2 against Stoke, abandoned at half-time), altering personnel each time. Sometimes a flexible approach gives a manager an air of admirable adaptability, but sometimes it suggests a manager who doesn’t really know what he’s doing.

It’s for this reason that we don’t really know what sort of manager Sherwood is. In the summer he commented that this season we would see what a Tim Sherwood side really was, and when questioned as to exactly what a Tim Sherwood side was, he simply replied “Winners.” After the defeat to Stoke, he said: “I had a manager in the opposite dugout (Mark Hughes) who hasn’t had it his own way at every club but he’s come through and stuck to his beliefs. That’s exactly what Tim Sherwood will be doing.”

Leaving aside the third person reference for a second, what exactly are those beliefs? Without an intimate presence in the Villa dressing room it’s slightly difficult to say exactly what his managerial approach is, but it sure as hell isn’t obvious from the way Villa have been playing. It’s not just that we don’t really yet know if Sherwood is a good manager, but that we don’t really know if he’s a manager at all, or just a smooth talker who’s prepared to wear as many items from the club shop at one time as possible.

The one thing we do know about Sherwood is that he’s a Football Man, because people say so. People like Jamie Redknapp, admittedly, but people nonetheless. And one of the things about a Football Man is that they’re no nonsense, they don’t take any rubbish from anyone and they keep things simple. That was something one could see in Sherwood in his brief spells of promise, that he thought of simplicity as a virtue and that complexity only, well, complicated things, a perfectly valid approach that has worked in the past. That has seemingly been abandoned this season and nervous tinkering has taken its place.

Perhaps Sherwood isn’t actually a manager at all. The only real, definite and distinguishable quality that he seems to have is an ability to get the best from previously underperforming strikers. Both Emmanuel Adebayor and Christian Benteke flourished under Sherwood’s tutelage, admittedly via some relatively basic psychology which appeared to consist of him telling both men they were great. Again, simple it might be, but it worked. Maybe he should sack the managerial thing off, and simply operate as some sort of freelance striker whisperer, a consultant who goes from club to club and has a little word in the shell-like of any out of form striker, gets them scoring and skips away with a fat stack of cash from his generous hourly rate. It’d give him a bit of free time, be a nice little earner and those eyes might not look quite so sunken all the time.

Yet it seems he’s quite set on this manager thing. Sherwood has of course been handed some pretty rum cards this season, trying to fashion a Villa side after their two best players were sold. Another, Ron Vlaar, left with the hope of better things only to bugger up his knee. This is a new squad, and one that is in the process of being knitted together, so one can’t hope for instant brilliant results.

The thing is, that squad will only be knitted together by someone who knows what he’s doing, by a manager with a clear idea of how he wants to manage. At the moment, Sherwood has shown little of this.

 

[bobzy]

In terms of British Managers you've got Allardyce (gong to Sunderland), Moyes (already has a job) and then beyond those two I can't think of anyone else who might be considered a 'safe pair of hands'.

'Arry, innit.

Appointing that word removed would definitely be the final nail in the football coffin for me.

Same.

I honestly don't know if I could watch us if Harry was in charge. 

But surely staying in the Premier League is more important than watching 'Arry be in charge?