Isa Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) ....so suggest a better alternative. But we had this last season. Those pressing for him to be sacked are asked to suggest alternatives and when they comply, then the debate is automatically thrown into a hypothetical quagmire with responses like 'you don't know that he'll do any better' etc. Edited November 4, 2014 by blandy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Curtis Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Can anyone be any worse than Lambert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) I appear to be in the minority here but I can't be the only one getting a sense of déjà vu. Every few years we have the same topic 'sack the manager' along with a few names banded around who should replace him. It's happening now and unless there is some major investment in the playing squad, it'll be the same in a few more years. Tony Pulis?! Seriously?! Now, I can't and wont defend Paul Lamberts record, particularly our home record, but the level of investment in our playing squad over the past few years has to rank somewhere amongst the low/mid table teams. Amazingly enough, that's where we're positioned. We've had a shocking run of games, but the first half against Spurs (and start of the season) was actually pretty good. I'll go as far as to say if Benteke hadn't been sent off, we would have won. Now we're without our best two players (Delph and Benteke) for another month or so. That's not Lamberts fault but it could cost him his job. I'm just getting tired of the same old revolving managerial door, not just a Villa but at all clubs. One average manager moves out only to be replaced by another manager. I personally feel we just need to back a manager and stick with him. The likelyhood of Pulis improving us is slim with the current financial limitations so let's all show some rare loyalty and back a man in desperate need of some backing. We just need investment. That's the only thing that will improve this club. Not *insert average manager name here*. Now who's with me...? the problem here is a subjective one I simply don't agree that the football was ok in the early part of the season and the first half on Sunday....there were problems there for all to see.....several times on sunday,westwood was out muscled in midfield and that was in the first half before the sending off that has just about got that game "out of jail"....cleverley was just as lightweight too. as a team the majority can't read the game, can't pass and move, have difficulty with the physical side of the game ( lack power, too may lightweights).....If the start was as good as you make out it would be more sustainable... its as brittle as old bones. as for their equaliser, Gabby was waiting for a bus.....nothing to do with the sending off...poor play and poor reading of whats going on. The run we had was tough, but on the back of the good start as you say, I would have expected a bit more of a fight.... 3 goals in minutes against arsenal was not my idea of a fight. The manager came out every 5 minutes with the ready made excuses for the forthcoming 5 games( after the liverpool game) and the players duly obliged....sure we are missing quality, but they could/should be better than this. Edited November 3, 2014 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pacbuddies Posted November 3, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 3, 2014 Can anyone be any worse than Lambert? Apparently everyone that we could possibly get. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villasteed Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) I appear to be in the minority here but I can't be the only one getting a sense of déjà vu. Every few years we have the same topic 'sack the manager' along with a few names banded around who should replace him. It's happening now and unless there is some major investment in the playing squad, it'll be the same in a few more years. Tony Pulis?! Seriously?! Now, I can't and wont defend Paul Lamberts record, particularly our home record, but the level of investment in our playing squad over the past few years has to rank somewhere amongst the low/mid table teams. Amazingly enough, that's where we're positioned. We've had a shocking run of games, but the first half against Spurs (and start of the season) was actually pretty good. I'll go as far as to say if Benteke hadn't been sent off, we would have won. Now we're without our best two players (Delph and Benteke) for another month or so. That's not Lamberts fault but it could cost him his job. I'm just getting tired of the same old revolving managerial door, not just a Villa but at all clubs. One average manager moves out only to be replaced by another manager. I personally feel we just need to back a manager and stick with him. The likelyhood of Pulis improving us is slim with the current financial limitations so let's all show some rare loyalty and back a man in desperate need of some backing. We just need investment. That's the only thing that will improve this club. Not *insert average manager name here*. Now who's with me...? Not me. Lambert has been appalling, and investment won't make him any less clueless.He signed Benteke. If there was a truly standout manager available who's interested in joining us, then I'd be more inclined to agree with the 'sack Lambert' camp...but there is no standout replacement. Any change now will just be for change sake and not necessarily in the best interest of the club. Edited November 3, 2014 by villasteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Hmmm. McCleish? Graham Taylor era 2? David O'Leary the final 6 months? Venglos? It feels like he's had longer to do less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I see we've gone gone full circle to the "If you can't suggest anyone better than that must mean there isn't" argument, even though there is now a whole thread dedicated to discussing alternatives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 .......was Ron Saunders a standout manager. Was Brian Little a standout manager. Was John Gregory a standout manager Martin O'Neill was a standout manager No one one really knows what your going get, but we sure as hell know what we are getting right now. If you eat shit and somebody offers you something else to eat it ain't much of a risk/decision to say yes ..is it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Can anyone be any worse than Lambert? Didn't we say exact this when McLeish left too? lol. Maybe it's something about Scottish managers and Aston Villa that don't go along. Might be some communication issues there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I actually don't want him here even if he does turn it around....I have seen too much, to know, that anything will be turned around with any consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) It is to do with not picking the right managers in the first place.....If you keep picking the wrong ones it will continue and thats why it has in the main. a bit of research and good interviewing techniques will work wonders. its called Nous....just seems our bloke is lacking in it....lets hope foxy can help. Edited November 3, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Even though we played better yesterday it makes the previous 5 games even more frustrating - we just didn't have the right approach in any of them. To me, it's all too little too late. How the standards have dropped at this club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeps Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Moyes is the man for me. Never should of gone United it was never going to work. He's a top manager and think us or newcastle could be his next club (pardew always seems to find a way). We have some talented players in the squad. But we have a manager who cannot get the best out of them. Lose to West Ham. Sack him. Get David in over the international break and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villasteed Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) .......was Ron Saunders a standout manager. Was Brian Little a standout manager. Was John Gregory a standout manager Martin O'Neill was a standout manager No one one really knows what your going get, but we sure as hell know what we are getting right now. If you eat shit and somebody offers you something else to eat it ain't much of a risk/decision to say yes ..is it?The managers you've named above were ultimately failures (with the exception of Ron Saunders)... I admit it is very hard to defend Lambert but surley people can understand my concern that nothing will actually improve by bringing in a new manager. Especially with some of the terrible managers who've been put forward. Money talks. And while there is little money available for Lambert, or a new manager, we just have to accept that things are going to be a struggle for us. We have to take risks on cheap foreigners because that's all we can afford. They rarely come off. It's not just Lamberts fault. What are our ambitions? Mid table? I'm confident that our squad can achieve that. Anything beyond that will need some heavy investment, rather than a new manager. Just trying to add a bit of perspective to this very one sided debate Edited November 3, 2014 by villasteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Not only is the first team failing under Lambert's leadership but the U21 and U18 teams seem to be in decline going by some of the recent results I've seen (we've just been hammered 5-0 by Newcastle at U21 level tonight). At all levels the club seems to be in a right mess. Best to cut our losses with Lambert and get someone in whose highest place finish as a manager is better than 12th place in the top division. We need to expect better, we need to demand better. Lambert is not delivering - wake up Lerner and give him the boot. Edited November 3, 2014 by Brumstopdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 .......was Ron Saunders a standout manager. Was Brian Little a standout manager. Was John Gregory a standout manager Martin O'Neill was a standout manager No one one really knows what your going get, but we sure as hell know what we are getting right now. If you eat shit and somebody offers you something else to eat it ain't much of a risk/decision to say yes ..is it?The managers you've named above were ultimately failures (with the exception of Ron Saunders)... I admit it is very hard to defend Lambert but surley people can understand my concern that nothing will actually improve by bringing in a new manager. Especially with some of the terrible managers who've been put forward. Money talks. And while there is little money available for Lambert, or a new manager, we just have to accept that things are going to be a struggle for us. We have to take risks on cheap foreigners because that's all we can afford. They rarely come off. It's not just Lamberts fault. What are our ambitions? Mid table? I'm confident that our squad can achieve that. Anything beyond that will need some heavy investment, rather than a new manager. Just trying to add a bit of perspective to this very one sided debate I don't think there has been a lack of perspective personally, but even considering the factors it's simply not being good enough. I agree with your assessment that we should be aiming for mid table, yet we've finished no higher than 15th under Lambert? And things aren't exactly looking great this season, we appear to be in a perpetual regression regarding our goal threat and to me the risk is in keeping Lambert not changing manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 .......was Ron Saunders a standout manager. Was Brian Little a standout manager. Was John Gregory a standout manager Martin O'Neill was a standout manager No one one really knows what your going get, but we sure as hell know what we are getting right now. If you eat shit and somebody offers you something else to eat it ain't much of a risk/decision to say yes ..is it? The managers you've named above were ultimately failures (with the exception of Ron Saunders)... Success and failure too is equally subjective....I have to say i think you have a strange way of depicting failure if you think a league cup is failure and flirting around in the top half of the table and dishing up believable football to boot. If you think those guys were failures....I dread to think how your evaluate this dross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 What's us suggesting a manager really adding to the debate? None of us know how close the club is to a sale, what managers would likely come to the club and what we can offer to any potential candidate. This just seems an attempt to move the argument away from how poor a job Lambert is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villasteed Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Not only is the first team failing under Lambert's leadership but the U21 and U18 teams seem to be in decline going by some of the recent results I've seen (we've just been hammered 5-0 by Newcastle at U21 level tonight). At all levels the club seems to be in a right mess. Best to cut our losses with Lambert and get someone in whose highest place finish as a manager is better than 12th place in the top division. We need to expect better, we need to demand better. Lambert is not delivering - wake up Lerner and give him the boot. I'm sorry but you can not blame Lambert for the failures of our youth teams. This is where we need some perspective. I agree that Lambert can be blamed for the poor performances of our first team but there are some very big things wrong at Villa and the manager is a very easy scapegoat. Until there are some serious changes at the top, any manager will struggle here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I'd just like to point out that when someone given an either or scenario, its completely daft to pick on the either as the posters opinion whilst ignoring the or situation that he also states. It is also pretty daft saying that a poster has no idea of our financial situation when albeit a year behind, its a matter of public record. So its correct. A year behind does not show our current financial situation. And what have you seen that makes you think its dramatically different from say the last five years? See if you're going to argue a point, its pretty much arguing 101 that you have at least a semblance of a fact to back it up with or really its merely posturing. It really does lead to a spectacularly dull debate otherwise And for the record I have no opinion either way on the point being debated here, I just detest the absolutely diabolical standard of the debate I remember there was talk of Faulkner saying our books were in order last year. With the increase in TV revenue and the fact we seem to have £8 million ready to spend on cleverly in a months time I think it points to us being in a position where sacking the manager won't bankrupt us. I'd like to hear why you think we financially can't afford to, maybe then you could up the standard of debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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