TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) What's us suggesting a manager really adding to the debate? None of us know how close the club is to a sale, what managers would likely come to the club and what we can offer to any potential candidate. This just seems an attempt to move the argument away from how poor a job Lambert is doing. well, that is interesting about whether we can attract a new manager....Roy Keane maintained he didn't give it a second thought. My suspicion is...its still a well sought after/high profile job.....just like the team have affected us.... we have the expectation exorcised from us to believe the prospects are shit....when in fact the prospects are not....its just the day to day reality that is. Edited November 3, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claretman Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) I still find it incomprehensible that people can still defend lambert. Yes, he's had limited funds but the man has proved himself tactically inept and incapable of finding anyway of moulding a team. I cannot believe that another manager could not get more out of these players. I don't blame him particularly for yesterday; we lost due to thick players and a crap ref. However his record is utterly appalling and we deserve better. He has no plan b and has not instilled any creativity into the team at all. We are bland and completely average. Lambert out; quite literally anyone in! Edited November 3, 2014 by claretman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villasteed Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 .......was Ron Saunders a standout manager. Was Brian Little a standout manager. Was John Gregory a standout manager Martin O'Neill was a standout manager No one one really knows what your going get, but we sure as hell know what we are getting right now. If you eat shit and somebody offers you something else to eat it ain't much of a risk/decision to say yes ..is it? The managers you've named above were ultimately failures (with the exception of Ron Saunders)... Success and failure too is equally subjective....I have to say i think you have a strange way of depicting failure if you think a league cup is failure and flirting around in the top half of the table and dishing up believable football to boot. If you think those guys were failures....I dread to think how your evaluate this dross. Success is relative. We had good teams under those managers playing in a fairer league (before the ridiculous input of money). I agree that now we would accept their achievements as a success, but why were they sacked (or resigned) if they were deemed a success at the time? Ultimately, while they did have successes, things took a turn for the worse and they became failures. Mid table is now deemed as a success and we should still achieve that, even with Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Not only is the first team failing under Lambert's leadership but the U21 and U18 teams seem to be in decline going by some of the recent results I've seen (we've just been hammered 5-0 by Newcastle at U21 level tonight). At all levels the club seems to be in a right mess. Best to cut our losses with Lambert and get someone in whose highest place finish as a manager is better than 12th place in the top division. We need to expect better, we need to demand better. Lambert is not delivering - wake up Lerner and give him the boot. I'm sorry but you can not blame Lambert for the failures of our youth teams. This is where we need some perspective. I agree that Lambert can be blamed for the poor performances of our first team but there are some very big things wrong at Villa and the manager is a very easy scapegoat. Until there are some serious changes at the top, any manager will struggle here. are you seriously suggesting the manager is not responsible for the teams below him. He is the man on the footballing side of the club, everyone reports to him. Martin O'Neill would have put a contract out on you for saying that. I agree there are some serious problems at the club, they usually get highlighted on a Saturday Afternoon....round about 4.50pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) What's us suggesting a manager really adding to the debate? None of us know how close the club is to a sale, what managers would likely come to the club and what we can offer to any potential candidate. This just seems an attempt to move the argument away from how poor a job Lambert is doing. Yes loads of uncertainty. Last thing we need is more of it, give him to Jan. Not saying you, but ones who want him out yesterday all seem to be suggesting Pulis. A man who Stoke fans couldnt wait to get rid of, STOKE wanted shot of him. But hell yeah hes the man for Villa. Edited November 3, 2014 by HeyAnty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) I don't get the argument that no manager could do better/would struggle here. Edited November 3, 2014 by Brumstopdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 .......was Ron Saunders a standout manager. Was Brian Little a standout manager. Was John Gregory a standout manager Martin O'Neill was a standout manager No one one really knows what your going get, but we sure as hell know what we are getting right now. If you eat shit and somebody offers you something else to eat it ain't much of a risk/decision to say yes ..is it? The managers you've named above were ultimately failures (with the exception of Ron Saunders)... Success and failure too is equally subjective....I have to say i think you have a strange way of depicting failure if you think a league cup is failure and flirting around in the top half of the table and dishing up believable football to boot. If you think those guys were failures....I dread to think how your evaluate this dross. Success is relative. We had good teams under those managers playing in a fairer league (before the ridiculous input of money). I agree that now we would accept their achievements as a success, but why were they sacked (or resigned) if they were deemed a success at the time? Ultimately, while they did have successes, things took a turn for the worse and they became failures. Mid table is now deemed as a success and we should still achieve that, even with Lambert. Because HDE had a far higher expectation than RL.....and don't take this as a defence of HDE because old wounds don't heal, but PL would have been history by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 What's us suggesting a manager really adding to the debate? None of us know how close the club is to a sale, what managers would likely come to the club and what we can offer to any potential candidate. This just seems an attempt to move the argument away from how poor a job Lambert is doing. Yes loads of uncertainty. Last thing we need is more of it, give him to Jan. Not saying you, but ones who want him out yesterday all seem to be suggesting Pulis. A man who Stoke fans could wait to get rid of, STOKE wanted shot of him. But hell yeah hes the man for Villa. To be fair Stoke fans wanted more after becoming a settled prem team. We're a mess right now, I'd take pullis till the club is sold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Gus Hiddinck....sorry just said it for effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 What's us suggesting a manager really adding to the debate? None of us know how close the club is to a sale, what managers would likely come to the club and what we can offer to any potential candidate. This just seems an attempt to move the argument away from how poor a job Lambert is doing. well, that is interesting about whether we can attract a new manager....Roy Keane maintained he didn't give it a second thought. My suspicion is...its still a well sought after/high profile job.....just like the team have affected us.... we have the expectation exorcised from us to believe the prospects are shit....when in fact the prospects are not....its just the day to day reality that is. I actually don't believe we are a high profile, sought after job. No manager is going to emotionally and physically invest in a project here because nothing exists. The sole aim of the club at the moment is to survive until its sold. The only managers who will want the jobs are out of work managers happy for a short term role in the premiership. A chance to get their name back out there and move on when we do. I don't think there will be plenty of good managers to choose from but Lambert's performing so poorly that I think we need to choose one of those types of manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 If it wasn't so serious..... it would be funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villasteed Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Not only is the first team failing under Lambert's leadership but the U21 and U18 teams seem to be in decline going by some of the recent results I've seen (we've just been hammered 5-0 by Newcastle at U21 level tonight). At all levels the club seems to be in a right mess. Best to cut our losses with Lambert and get someone in whose highest place finish as a manager is better than 12th place in the top division. We need to expect better, we need to demand better. Lambert is not delivering - wake up Lerner and give him the boot. I'm sorry but you can not blame Lambert for the failures of our youth teams. This is where we need some perspective. I agree that Lambert can be blamed for the poor performances of our first team but there are some very big things wrong at Villa and the manager is a very easy scapegoat. Until there are some serious changes at the top, any manager will struggle here. are you seriously suggesting the manager is not responsible for the teams below him. He is the man on the footballing side of the club, everyone reports to him. Martin O'Neill would have put a contract out on you for saying that. I agree there are some serious problems at the club, they usually get highlighted on a Saturday Afternoon....round about 4.50pm Please have some perspective. Surely these people are more accountable: Youth Team Manager - Tony McAndrew Academy Manager- Sean Kimberley Head of Academy Coaching - Tony McAndrew I'm not saying Lambert shouldn't shoulder some of the blame but he should not be made a scapegoat. Edited November 3, 2014 by villasteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villasteed Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I appear to be in the minority here but I can't be the only one getting a sense of déjà vu. Every few years we have the same topic 'sack the manager' along with a few names banded around who should replace him. It's happening now and unless there is some major investment in the playing squad, it'll be the same in a few more years. Tony Pulis?! Seriously?! Now, I can't and wont defend Paul Lamberts record, particularly our home record, but the level of investment in our playing squad over the past few years has to rank somewhere amongst the low/mid table teams. Amazingly enough, that's where we're positioned. We've had a shocking run of games, but the first half against Spurs (and start of the season) was actually pretty good. I'll go as far as to say if Benteke hadn't been sent off, we would have won. Now we're without our best two players (Delph and Benteke) for another month or so. That's not Lamberts fault but it could cost him his job. I'm just getting tired of the same old revolving managerial door, not just a Villa but at all clubs. One average manager moves out only to be replaced by another manager. I personally feel we just need to back a manager and stick with him. The likelyhood of Pulis improving us is slim with the current financial limitations so let's all show some rare loyalty and back a man in desperate need of some backing. We just need investment. That's the only thing that will improve this club. Not *insert average manager name here*. Now who's with me...? the problem here is a subjective one I simply don't agree that the football was ok in the early part of the season and the first half on Sunday....there were problems there for all to see.....several times on sunday,westwood was out muscled in midfield and that was in the first half before the sending off that has just about got that game "out of jail"....cleverley was just as lightweight too. as a team the majority can't read the game, can't pass and move, have difficulty with the physical side of the game ( lack power, too may lightweights).....If the start was as good as you make out it would be more sustainable... its as brittle as old bones. as for their equaliser, Gabby was waiting for a bus.....nothing to do with the sending off...poor play and poor reading of whats going on. The run we had was tough, but on the back of the good start as you say, I would have expected a bit more of a fight.... 3 goals in minutes against arsenal was not my idea of a fight. The manager came out every 5 minutes with the ready made excuses for the forthcoming 5 games( after the liverpool game) and the players duly obliged....sure we are missing quality, but they could/should be better than this. You don't think Benteke would have defended that corner better than Gabby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Not only is the first team failing under Lambert's leadership but the U21 and U18 teams seem to be in decline going by some of the recent results I've seen (we've just been hammered 5-0 by Newcastle at U21 level tonight). At all levels the club seems to be in a right mess. Best to cut our losses with Lambert and get someone in whose highest place finish as a manager is better than 12th place in the top division. We need to expect better, we need to demand better. Lambert is not delivering - wake up Lerner and give him the boot. I'm sorry but you can not blame Lambert for the failures of our youth teams. This is where we need some perspective. I agree that Lambert can be blamed for the poor performances of our first team but there are some very big things wrong at Villa and the manager is a very easy scapegoat. Until there are some serious changes at the top, any manager will struggle here. are you seriously suggesting the manager is not responsible for the teams below him. He is the man on the footballing side of the club, everyone reports to him. Martin O'Neill would have put a contract out on you for saying that. I agree there are some serious problems at the club, they usually get highlighted on a Saturday Afternoon....round about 4.50pm Please have some perspective. Surely these people are more accountable: Youth Team Manager - Tony McAndrew Academy Manager- Sean Kimberley Head of Academy Coaching - Tony McAndrew I'm not saying Lambert shouldn't shoulder some of the blame but he should not be made a scapegoat. This is getting a bit like the Apprentice. In this example: Lerner is Alan Sugar. Paul Lambert is the project manager (who has failed 6 tasks on the trot!) Tony, Sean etc are the sub team leaders. Paul Lambert surely has accountability for the first team and ultimate responsibility (but assisted by Tony & Sean) for the U21 and U18. Hopefully the next episode will be Randy saying "Paul Lambert, YOU'RE FIRED!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 .......was Ron Saunders a standout manager. Was Brian Little a standout manager. Was John Gregory a standout manager Martin O'Neill was a standout manager No one one really knows what your going get, but we sure as hell know what we are getting right now. If you eat shit and somebody offers you something else to eat it ain't much of a risk/decision to say yes ..is it? The managers you've named above were ultimately failures (with the exception of Ron Saunders)... I admit it is very hard to defend Lambert but surley people can understand my concern that nothing will actually improve by bringing in a new manager. Especially with some of the terrible managers who've been put forward. Money talks. And while there is little money available for Lambert, or a new manager, we just have to accept that things are going to be a struggle for us. We have to take risks on cheap foreigners because that's all we can afford. They rarely come off. It's not just Lamberts fault. What are our ambitions? Mid table? I'm confident that our squad can achieve that. Anything beyond that will need some heavy investment, rather than a new manager. Just trying to add a bit of perspective to this very one sided debate would it have not been a complete "get out jail" card for Ron Koeman to say we have sold all our best players at the start of the season? ...would he not have had sympathy from here to Marrakesh. NO ....He applied himself and got on with the job. Winners don't search for excuses. I appear to be in the minority here but I can't be the only one getting a sense of déjà vu. Every few years we have the same topic 'sack the manager' along with a few names banded around who should replace him. It's happening now and unless there is some major investment in the playing squad, it'll be the same in a few more years. Tony Pulis?! Seriously?! Now, I can't and wont defend Paul Lamberts record, particularly our home record, but the level of investment in our playing squad over the past few years has to rank somewhere amongst the low/mid table teams. Amazingly enough, that's where we're positioned. We've had a shocking run of games, but the first half against Spurs (and start of the season) was actually pretty good. I'll go as far as to say if Benteke hadn't been sent off, we would have won. Now we're without our best two players (Delph and Benteke) for another month or so. That's not Lamberts fault but it could cost him his job. I'm just getting tired of the same old revolving managerial door, not just a Villa but at all clubs. One average manager moves out only to be replaced by another manager. I personally feel we just need to back a manager and stick with him. The likelyhood of Pulis improving us is slim with the current financial limitations so let's all show some rare loyalty and back a man in desperate need of some backing. We just need investment. That's the only thing that will improve this club. Not *insert average manager name here*. Now who's with me...? the problem here is a subjective one I simply don't agree that the football was ok in the early part of the season and the first half on Sunday....there were problems there for all to see.....several times on sunday,westwood was out muscled in midfield and that was in the first half before the sending off that has just about got that game "out of jail"....cleverley was just as lightweight too. as a team the majority can't read the game, can't pass and move, have difficulty with the physical side of the game ( lack power, too may lightweights).....If the start was as good as you make out it would be more sustainable... its as brittle as old bones. as for their equaliser, Gabby was waiting for a bus.....nothing to do with the sending off...poor play and poor reading of whats going on. The run we had was tough, but on the back of the good start as you say, I would have expected a bit more of a fight.... 3 goals in minutes against arsenal was not my idea of a fight. The manager came out every 5 minutes with the ready made excuses for the forthcoming 5 games( after the liverpool game) and the players duly obliged....sure we are missing quality, but they could/should be better than this. You don't think Benteke would have defended that corner better than Gabby? I think Paul Mcgrath would have done....but he wasn't there....Gabby was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I don't get the "give him until january" stuff, so if we lost say 4 of the next 6 then we should still give him until january? Whats the point in that? Sorry but if he makes it 8 in a row he simply has to go, there is no defending that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 What's us suggesting a manager really adding to the debate? None of us know how close the club is to a sale, what managers would likely come to the club and what we can offer to any potential candidate. This just seems an attempt to move the argument away from how poor a job Lambert is doing. well, that is interesting about whether we can attract a new manager....Roy Keane maintained he didn't give it a second thought. My suspicion is...its still a well sought after/high profile job.....just like the team have affected us.... we have the expectation exorcised from us to believe the prospects are shit....when in fact the prospects are not....its just the day to day reality that is. I actually don't believe we are a high profile, sought after job. No manager is going to emotionally and physically invest in a project here because nothing exists. The sole aim of the club at the moment is to survive until its sold. The only managers who will want the jobs are out of work managers happy for a short term role in the premiership. A chance to get their name back out there and move on when we do. I don't think there will be plenty of good managers to choose from but Lambert's performing so poorly that I think we need to choose one of those types of manager. seriously...unless Bill gates and warren Buffet are planning a swoop, we ain't going to get a kinda next best thing to nailed on success manager... we are not going to lure a Jurgen Klop unless we have mega funds to make sure their reputations stay intact....forget it. There is a clear distinction from watching a game with one shot on target at home and all the other undesirable stats over the last 2 years which are totally tangible....than saying who could we get thats better, thats intangible, but its worth the risk. got to be ,surely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndJo Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Lambert out Pulis in asap please. Ive seen people moaning about Pulis saying he will keep us up but can't push on from there but in the summer he wanted both Sigurdsson and Michu. He needs a bit of backing financially before he can be judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I don't get the "give him until january" stuff, so if we lost say 4 of the next 6 then we should still give him until january? Whats the point in that? Sorry but if he makes it 8 in a row he simply has to go, there is no defending that. Neither do I, I really don't get it.....because we are back the the results v Performances debate. we are waiting for the results to come back, but the football is still low grade. We should have seen enough by now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villasteed Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Lambert out Pulis in asap please. Ive seen people moaning about Pulis saying he will keep us up but can't push on from there but in the summer he wanted both Sigurdsson and Michu. He needs a bit of backing financially before he can be judged. So you want Pulis as Aston Villa manager because he wanted to sign Sigurdsson and Michu..? I'm sorry, but these are the comments that frustrate the hell out of me. For one, is it even factually accurate? And secondly, who didn't want those two? You also seem to think a new manager is going to get some sort of financial backing... Edited November 3, 2014 by villasteed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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