What do you drive?

[darrenm]

14 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

didn't Clarkson cover this

[Genie]

10 hours ago, darrenm said:

Pure maths on the ranges.

To get the 200+ mile ranges on big cars like model S and exec 4x4s you need 80kWh+. The Tesla model S starts at 70kWh and goes up to 100 (p70, p80 etc)

For a Jaguar f pace to get 300 miles it'll need a 100kWh battery like a p100d

The Hyundai ioniq gets 100 miles out of a 24kWh pack as it's so efficient being low weight. The new Zoe has a 40kWh, and the new e-Golf 36 so they'll be around a real world 150 miles.

The cost of the batteries are purely linear. They currently cost about $150 / kWh so the battery of a Tesla on its own costs $15000. So for EVs to be affordable they have to find the sweet spot in the range.

By next year they reckon it'll be about $100/kWh and by 2021 EVs will be cheaper to buy than equivalent range conventional engine cars. So in 3 years time ICE cars will be pointless. Not a good idea to buy a new car any time soon.

But there are several types of battery technology in cars that are currently being developed. All have different pro's, cons and costs.

[darrenm]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

But there are several types of battery technology in cars that are currently being developed. All have different pro's, cons and costs.

What different types? I'm only seeing li-ion but with technology increases e.g. more energy dense.

[tonyh29]

7 hours ago, darrenm said:

I guess debunking it would have been so easy that you decided not to bother

 

[blandy]

23 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I guess debunking it would have been so easy that you decided not to bother

Clarkson talked about it, in his entertainment way, sort of covering those parts of the subject that fit an entertainment programme and exaggerated version of himself and his world view, and he made some good comments, but he didn't really give a rounded balanced view of the situation. He's a brilliant writer and I'm sure he'd be capable of covering it in an informative and unbiased way, but it's easier (and more entertaining) to do it in his typical blundering galoot persona.

[Genie]

2 hours ago, darrenm said:

What different types? I'm only seeing li-ion but with technology increases e.g. more energy dense.

I know that in the Jaguar example several battery technologies were investigated and it's very hard to predict which will be the 'one' that really catches on. It's a VHS / Betamax time at the moment.

Jaguar went with Li-ion on i-Pace but that's not to say it's going to be the standard. Other car manufacturers have also tried lead-acid batteries, nickel metal hydride (NiMH) batteries, as well as Lithium ion.

[darrenm]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

I know that in the Jaguar example several battery technologies were investigated and it's very hard to predict which will be the 'one' that really catches on. It's a VHS / Betamax time at the moment.

Jaguar went with Li-ion on i-Pace but that's not to say it's going to be the standard. Other car manufacturers have also tried lead-acid batteries, nickel metal hydride (NiMH) batteries, as well as Lithium ion.

I'm pretty sure it's li-ion or nothing now. Ni-mh is popular in hybrids because of the low cost but they're nowhere near as good for a number of reasons. I can't imagine lead acid being much use in a modern EV :-)

[darrenm]

2 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

I guess debunking it would have been so easy that you decided not to bother

 

Actually pretty much yes :-)

When Top Gear got caught out lying about their test Tesla Roadster running out of electricity their get-out was 'it's an entertainment show, we didn't say it actually ran out, we only showed what would happen if it did'.

You know those fake news stories that go round Facebook and the like where it doesn't sound quite right but lots of people believe them anyway? Clarkson starts those kind of things. The amount of people who truly believe his assertion that a BMW m3 gets better MPG than a Prius is astounding.

Clarkson's version of battery recycling doesn't stand up to scrutiny I'm afraid. Il get you full details when bored at work tomorrow.

[tonyh29]

12 hours ago, darrenm said:

Clarkson's version of battery recycling doesn't stand up to scrutiny I'm afraid. Il get you full details when bored at work tomorrow.

tbf I quoted a version off the web (plus added some flippancy of my own) rather than Clarkson's .. all I could remember was he had done a segment on it ... I'd be interested to see the debunk though if you get bored  ...

[Risso]

On 15/03/2017 at 09:20, TrentVilla said:

Not worth the hassle for £15 though.

Check your bank account.  I have an enhanced current account with IOM Bank (basically a rebranded NatWest), and part of the deal is that I get free travel insurance, and free car hire insurance excess waiver.  Really glad I have it as it covered me for reversing a car into a wall in Spain last summer! 

[TrentVilla]

11 minutes ago, Risso said:

Check your bank account.  I have an enhanced current account with IOM Bank (basically a rebranded NatWest), and part of the deal is that I get free travel insurance, and free car hire insurance excess waiver.  Really glad I have it as it covered me for reversing a car into a wall in Spain last summer! 

Good tip but I don't have it.

[Genie]

On 14/03/2017 at 22:21, Stevo985 said:

Girlfriend had her car serviced with Audi today. Got a courtesy car for the day. 

When she took the courtesy car back she bumped a customer car in the dealership and scratched both cars. Nothing catastrophic, but damage to both vehicles. 

Does anyone know how this works? I assume all the cost is covered by Audi's insurance which she was put on to drive the car?

She's already had to pay £250 excess, but she seems to think the dealer told her they'd be in touch tomorrow to tell her how much it will cost. Surely if she's paid the excess then the insurance covers the rest? Or am i missing something?

Just saw this on Facebook and feel you might be playing down this "bump"

[villakram]

Things getting a bit mental over here. On the radio this morning, they were hawking Chevy Equinox's for $59.99 per month on a 2yr lease... I wasn't paying attention, but this really grabbed me! Still not going near a Chevy, but damn.

Guess that translates to an SUV for ~10 of then Queen's best pounds per week.

[BillyShears]

My sister has an Equinox. Tinny piece of crap. I'd still prefer my old Ford Windstar over that!

[villa_shere]

I've got a couple cars to sell around £3k n £6k. Where's best place to sell them?

thinking of staying away from Gumtree and torn between eBay and autotrader. Money says eBay as classifieds lists but head saying autotrader as I assume most ppl use that as the go to website/app.

[veloman]

In about 1956 (shows how old I am !) I had a toy car made by "Distler" - think that is right spelling. It was German and powered by a small battery thingy which my Dad called an 'accumulator'. You charged it up with a specific charger shaped like a petrol pump. It didn't run for all that long but was pretty cool for the time. Now , things have moved on a bit since then but we,apparently, still can't produce a viable battery to power a car. Would it be cynical to suggest that there are vested interests at work in not progressing such development.

NB watch 'The Stone Cutters' episode of The Simpsons for a hint.

[BillyShears]

5 hours ago, villa_shere said:

I've got a couple cars to sell around £3k n £6k. Where's best place to sell them?

thinking of staying away from Gumtree and torn between eBay and autotrader. Money says eBay as classifieds lists but head saying autotrader as I assume most ppl use that as the go to website/app.

I used Autotrader, no problems. Got lots of calls and sold it quite quickly.

[Risso]

I'm going to swap my Range Rover Sport soon.  It's a nice car, but the build quality on them, and especially anything electrical, is absolutely bloody appalling.  It's a shame, because the 7 seats are pretty much a necessity, but I think I'm going to have to go something German again.

[Tegis]

10 hours ago, Risso said:

I'm going to swap my Range Rover Sport soon.  It's a nice car, but the build quality on them, and especially anything electrical, is absolutely bloody appalling.  It's a shame, because the 7 seats are pretty much a necessity, but I think I'm going to have to go something German again.

New XC90? Had a look in the new V90 and is bloody nice. They've stepped up on the interior big time. Dunno about engines, drive-ability and such though.

[Chindie]

16 hours ago, veloman said:

In about 1956 (shows how old I am !) I had a toy car made by "Distler" - think that is right spelling. It was German and powered by a small battery thingy which my Dad called an 'accumulator'. You charged it up with a specific charger shaped like a petrol pump. It didn't run for all that long but was pretty cool for the time. Now , things have moved on a bit since then but we,apparently, still can't produce a viable battery to power a car. Would it be cynical to suggest that there are vested interests at work in not progressing such development.

NB watch 'The Stone Cutters' episode of The Simpsons for a hint.

Most electric cars today are at least in part battery powered.

Batteries are getting better, but there's inherent issues with them that, when scaled to a full sized vehicle, get increasingly problematical, and we've slowly started to overcome them. You have to consider that the push for electric vehicles isn't even a thing 30 years ago, and 20 years ago it's high concept vehicles from the main players and that's it really, at best. Actually getting to the nitty gritty and producing a consumer vehicle is a relatively new thing, without much market to push it even now, so they haven't had the financial impetus to push things ahead.

But things are changing and will get better. Batteries as we know then now will probably end up being a halfway house, but in the meantime the push will be to increase efficiency and life span, and reduce size, weight and cost. And eventually be superseded entirely.