World Cup 2022: Qatar

[Sulberto21]

23 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

Read an article the other day pointing out it seems a little weird everyone is dogpiling Qatar for being an awful place that doesn’t respect freedom or tolerate homosexuality when the last World Cup was in Russia which was hardly a bastion of freedom even at the time and is literally now committing genocide in Ukraine, and the last Winter Olympics were held this year in autocratic China (also currently committing genocide and threatening to invade Taiwan), and there was nowhere near as much fuss about either.

It does seem a double standard now I’ve had it pointed out to me.

Islamophobia. 

[villa4europe]

34 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

Read an article the other day pointing out it seems a little weird everyone is dogpiling Qatar for being an awful place that doesn’t respect freedom or tolerate homosexuality when the last World Cup was in Russia which was hardly a bastion of freedom even at the time and is literally now committing genocide in Ukraine, and the last Winter Olympics were held this year in autocratic China (also currently committing genocide and threatening to invade Taiwan), and there was nowhere near as much fuss about either.

It does seem a double standard now I’ve had it pointed out to me.

I think it's because we all kind of knew Russia was a bit ropey but Qatar winning it was mind bogglingly brazen in its corruption

Qatar hosting is FIFA taking the piss to an extent that wasn't there with Russia

[Panto_Villan]

20 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

Islamophobia. 

 

7 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I think it's because we all kind of knew Russia was a bit ropey but Qatar winning it was mind bogglingly brazen in its corruption

Qatar hosting is FIFA taking the piss to an extent that wasn't there with Russia

Yeah. So I think a lot of the backlash is largely because of the FIFA corruption in giving it to them in the first place when they didn’t have the infrastructure and it’s too hot. It was pretty blatant. I get why that has tarnished the World Cup.

But the way that is framed as criticism of Qatar as a place rather than FIFA’s award process is pretty bad. I’m not one to throw around casual accusations of racism, in fact quite the opposite, but the way the abuses and intolerance happening in Qatar are framed compared to in Russia does seem to me like racism / Islamophobia is a factor here.

[HongKongVillan]

52 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

Read an article the other day pointing out it seems a little weird everyone is dogpiling Qatar for being an awful place that doesn’t respect freedom or tolerate homosexuality when the last World Cup was in Russia which was hardly a bastion of freedom even at the time and is literally now committing genocide in Ukraine, and the last Winter Olympics were held this year in autocratic China (also currently committing genocide and threatening to invade Taiwan), and there was nowhere near as much fuss about either.

It does seem a double standard now I’ve had it pointed out to me.

Or may be apart for the lack of freedom and homophobia, for a oil riches nation, they have enslave masses for the infrastructure to that was needed for the wC, but at the same time being able to pay at least 10m to the likes of Beckham so they have a better chance of a taste of his balls?

Or at least personally this is the worse bit for me, I can almost argue that I should respect your culture and how things are with your views to gays, but at least pay your fair share for hiring workers who you **** needed to build your place up.

[Adman]

40 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

 

Yeah. So I think a lot of the backlash is largely because of the FIFA corruption in giving it to them in the first place when they didn’t have the infrastructure and it’s too hot. It was pretty blatant. I get why that has tarnished the World Cup.

But the way that is framed as criticism of Qatar as a place rather than FIFA’s award process is pretty bad. I’m not one to throw around casual accusations of racism, in fact quite the opposite, but the way the abuses and intolerance happening in Qatar are framed compared to in Russia does seem to me like racism / Islamophobia is a factor here.

Agreed.  Massive double standards, but while FIFA bend to the highest bidder - it's likely that many world cups will become the go-to sportswash event for despot dictators and warmongers to improve their reputation and influence in the world. 

 

[sne]

...

Quote

Still, you might want a host nation whose fans care enough not to ditch the World Cup to beat the traffic. The only section in the entire stadium that didn’t gradually empty in the second half was the section of disciplined, passionate fans chanting for Qatar.

In fairness, of course, they are apparently from Lebanon for the most part. One Lebanese source said they had been in the country for six months, paid, and that many of them cheer for the Lebanese league team Nejmeh back home. The Lebanon-based website FA Lebanon has tweeted out their pictures and said so. The Star contacted one member of the squad who confirmed their identity, which the Star will not release, but said they could not speak until the end of the tournament.

It’s not a surprise: Qataris are particularly world class at outsourcing jobs they don’t want to do. It’s just that nothing about this night felt very good, did it?

The home team was embarrassed, the hosts treated people badly and the whole thing felt fake. The World Cup kicked off in the extravagant desert tent-style Al Bayt Stadium with Sadu patterns painted on the ceiling in the manner of Bedouin weaving, and it was an embarrassing night in what has been an embarrassing, chiefly joyless World Cup so far. Really, we should look for the positive. Maybe it can only get better from here.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/worldcup/opinion/2022/11/20/opening-night-at-the-world-cup-was-an-utter-embarrasment-for-qatar-on-and-off-the-field.html

[romavillan]

Long read but very much worth it:

https://theconversation.com/qatars-death-row-and-the-invisible-migrant-workforce-deemed-unworthy-of-due-process-191017
 

Here's the first 3 paragraphs...

' Qatari authorities are ignoring international law by failing to inform embassies when their citizens are arrested, detained or are pending trial for a death sentence. 

Our new data reveals that between 2016 and 2021 at least 21 people were under sentence of death in Qatar. Of the 21, only three cases involved Qatari nationals and only one involved a woman (who was accused of murder). The remaining 18 were made up of foreign nationals: seven from India, two from Nepal, five from Bangladesh, one Tunisian and three Asians of unknown nationality.

Of these cases, 17 related to homicide and one a conviction for drug trafficking. The majority of the murder cases involved male migrant labourers from South Asia, convicted of crimes related to their precarious migrant worker status. The remaining murder cases involved one Tunisian man, and two defendants’ where the nationalities were unknown.... ' .

[Pinebro]

Record low viewing numbers here in Norway.

Great to see.

[Panto_Villan]

56 minutes ago, HongKongVillan said:

Or may be apart for the lack of freedom and homophobia, for a oil riches nation, they have enslave masses for the infrastructure to that was needed for the wC, but at the same time being able to pay at least 10m to the likes of Beckham so they have a better chance of a taste of his balls?

Or at least personally this is the worse bit for me, I can almost argue that I should respect your culture and how things are with your views to gays, but at least pay your fair share for hiring workers who you **** needed to build your place up.

Again, I’m not sure that’s a problem that’s unique to Qatar or even the Middle East. Russia gets huge amounts of migrant labour from the various stans and they’re not treated particularly well. Recently they’ve ended up being conscripted into the Russian army and sent to die in Ukraine, for example.

Also, the wages paid in Qatar are way better than those people would earn in their home countries; that’s why so many people go there to work. The conditions are pretty grim but it’s not slavery for the most part.

People coming from less developed countries and working in dangerous jobs with little legal protection from mistreatment happens all over the world. It even happens in the UK to some extent. It’s something that the world should make a fuss about, of course - yet it’s odd it’s only Qatar that has been singled out for this sort of treatment.

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said:

 

Yeah. So I think a lot of the backlash is largely because of the FIFA corruption in giving it to them in the first place when they didn’t have the infrastructure and it’s too hot. It was pretty blatant. I get why that has tarnished the World Cup.

But the way that is framed as criticism of Qatar as a place rather than FIFA’s award process is pretty bad. I’m not one to throw around casual accusations of racism, in fact quite the opposite, but the way the abuses and intolerance happening in Qatar are framed compared to in Russia does seem to me like racism / Islamophobia is a factor here.

I think it is personally

Hatred of FIFA and this world cup in general has spilled over in to hatred of Qatar

[The Fun Factory]

15 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Record low viewing numbers here in Norway.

Great to see.

Or not see.

[magnkarl]

32 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

Again, I’m not sure that’s a problem that’s unique to Qatar or even the Middle East. Russia gets huge amounts of migrant labour from the various stans and they’re not treated particularly well. Recently they’ve ended up being conscripted into the Russian army and sent to die in Ukraine, for example.

Also, the wages paid in Qatar are way better than those people would earn in their home countries; that’s why so many people go there to work. The conditions are pretty grim but it’s not slavery for the most part.

People coming from less developed countries and working in dangerous jobs with little legal protection from mistreatment happens all over the world. It even happens in the UK to some extent. It’s something that the world should make a fuss about, of course - yet it’s odd it’s only Qatar that has been singled out for this sort of treatment.

There are other aspects too. It’s important to not fall down the whataboutism hole. It’s what FIFA wants us to do.

China’s olympics was bad, Russia’s World Cup and Olympics were bad. Qatar is bad.

It’s possible to hold several thoughts in one’s head without pulling up the whatabout card.

In conclusion. FIFA and IOC are corrupt bastards.

Edited November 25, 2022 by magnkarl

[sne]

54 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Record low viewing numbers here in Norway.

Great to see.

Swedish numbers are down on average 47% compared to 2018 and 36% compared to the Euro's. Obviously Sweden not qualifying plays a part.

[LondonLax]

3 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

 

Yeah. So I think a lot of the backlash is largely because of the FIFA corruption in giving it to them in the first place when they didn’t have the infrastructure and it’s too hot. It was pretty blatant. I get why that has tarnished the World Cup.

But the way that is framed as criticism of Qatar as a place rather than FIFA’s award process is pretty bad. I’m not one to throw around casual accusations of racism, in fact quite the opposite, but the way the abuses and intolerance happening in Qatar are framed compared to in Russia does seem to me like racism / Islamophobia is a factor here.

There is definitely an element of racism thrown in with the criticism. Russia got off much more lightly. 

[sne]

6 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

There is definitely an element of racism thrown in with the criticism. Russia got off much more lightly. 

So you think Qatar should get less criticism or Russia more? Personally I feel the criticism Qatar get is justified.

Edited November 25, 2022 by sne

[LondonLax]

6 minutes ago, sne said:

So you think Qatar should get less criticism or Russia more? Personally I feel the criticism Qatar get is justified.

Russia more. It feels like we only found our voice when it was those backwards Arabs causing problems. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by LondonLax

[sne]

11 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

Russia more. It feels like we only found our voice when it was those backwards Arabs causing problems. 

Russia getting the WC isn't really that odd even thou it was in part due to bribes and corruption. They are a huge sporting and football nation. Qatar getting it is just wrong on every level.

As for human rights and so on Russia absolutely shouldn't have gotten it but tbf they seemed like a better place back then and hadn't even invaded Ukraine the first time when they got it. FIFA should have stripped them of it when they did in 2014.

As others have said it's the combination of corruption, bribes, human rights issues, homophobia and Qatar being utterly unsuited and undeserved of having the WC that is the base of people being upset. 

The 2026 WC will be interesting to see how it's received depending who is president in the US.

[The_Steve]

There was lots of criticism of Russia too 

[Zatman]

Looking at the games so far and its interesting that the Asian teams have performed really well minus Qatar and Australia if they actually count

Africa and North America have struggled so far

[Lichfield Dean]

7 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

There was lots of criticism of Russia too 

I remember there being a lot of criticism, especially about LGBT stuff. I remember Collymore tweeting loads about how it was unfair and that Russia was actually a great place.