Rds1983 Posted November 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: This might be plausible if the 2022 Winter Olympics hadn’t happened at the start of this year without any serious calls to boycott it. Visibility. Most people barely know the Winter Olympics is on let alone linked controversies. The World Cup is the biggest sporting event in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: This might be plausible if the 2022 Winter Olympics hadn’t happened at the start of this year without any serious calls to boycott it. As far as I remember several countries, including Denmark, USA, Netherlands, Canada, UK +++ boycotted Beijing diplomatically during the olympics. There were also enormous calls from the most prolific medal winner-nation, Norway, about abuses of Uighurs even when they were in China. No one’s boycotted Qatar diplomatically so far. China wanted world leaders on the stage next to Xi, and only got Putin really. The hypocrisy of IOC was amongst others discussed live on TV by Johannes Klaebo of Norway. He’s probably the biggest name in winter sports. Edited November 25, 2022 by magnkarl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 18 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: This might be plausible if the 2022 Winter Olympics hadn’t happened at the start of this year without any serious calls to boycott it. This is just revisionism or a result of not paying attention. Plenty of discussion and criticism in Norway. It doesn’t get much bigger than the Winter Olympics here, as far as sporting events go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, magnkarl said: As far as I remember several countries, including Denmark, USA, Netherlands, Canada, UK +++ boycotted Beijing diplomatically during the olympics. There were also enormous calls from the most prolific medal winner-nation, Norway, about abuses of Uighurs even when they were in China. No one’s boycotted Qatar diplomatically so far. China wanted world leaders on the stage next to Xi, and only got Putin really. The hypocrisy of IOC was amongst others discussed live on TV by Johannes Klaebo of Norway. I feel like that's apples and oranges though. No major world leaders are actually expected to attend Qatar, and I don't think it's normal for any major western power to send ministers along either? Whereas even the Winter Olympics is a bigger deal where governments often have official representation. From skim reading the news it seems like the World Cup just got the leaders from other Gulf states and a few random places like Rwanda and Liberia turning up. It's nice to know that the abuses in China got coverage in Norway but in the UK at least I don't remember seeing anywhere near the level of coverage. Clearly some of that is because the winter olympics are a lower profile event, but that's true even relatively speaking - in the UK it seems like there's more coverage about Qatar itself than there is about the football (admittedly potentially because we're so bitter FIFA screwed us over). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, El Zen said: This is just revisionism or a result of not paying attention. Plenty of discussion and criticism in Norway. It doesn’t get much bigger than the Winter Olympics here, as far as sporting events go. Yeah, but to be fair I was replying to a post talking about how people are angry because we've gone through Brexit, BoJo and Liz Truss. Unless I've really not been paying attention, you Norweigans probably weren't covered by that comment 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Panto_Villan said: I feel like that's apples and oranges though. No major world leaders are actually expected to attend Qatar, and I don't think it's normal for any major western power to send ministers along either? Whereas even the Winter Olympics is a bigger deal where governments often have official representation. From skim reading the news it seems like the World Cup just got the leaders from other Gulf states and a few random places like Rwanda and Liberia turning up. It's nice to know that the abuses in China got coverage in Norway but in the UK at least I don't remember seeing anywhere near the level of coverage. Clearly some of that is because the winter olympics are a lower profile event, but that's true even relatively speaking - in the UK it seems like there's more coverage about Qatar itself than there is about the football (admittedly potentially because we're so bitter FIFA screwed us over). Well, Infantino’s had plenty of visits from high up European ministers this week in the chair next to him. Belgium, Denmark, Germany. All women, all likely telling him what awaits when EU start properly looking at FIFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Well, Infantino’s had plenty of visits from high up European ministers this week in the chair next to him. Belgium, Denmark, Germany. All women, all likely telling him what awaits when EU start properly looking at FIFA. Let's hope they do! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, sne said: Russia getting the WC isn't really that odd even thou it was in part due to bribes and corruption. They are a huge sporting and football nation. Qatar getting it is just wrong on every level. As for human rights and so on Russia absolutely shouldn't have gotten it but tbf they seemed like a better place back then and hadn't even invaded Ukraine the first time when they got it. FIFA should have stripped them of it when they did in 2014. As others have said it's the combination of corruption, bribes, human rights issues, homophobia and Qatar being utterly unsuited and undeserved of having the WC that is the base of people being upset. The 2026 WC will be interesting to see how it's received depending who is president in the US. If we’re playing a game of ‘top trumps’ surely what Russia had done to the people of Aleppo or what they had done to flight MH17 or what they had done to the people of the Donbas was much worse than anything Qatar has managed in the run up to hosting a sports washing tournament. Yet I don’t remember anything like this level of protests and boycotts during the Russian World Cup or Sochi Olympics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: Yeah, but to be fair I was replying to a post talking about how people are angry because we've gone through Brexit, BoJo and Liz Truss. Unless I've really not been paying attention, you Norweigans probably weren't covered by that comment Sorry. Missed that part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, LondonLax said: If we’re playing a game of ‘top trumps’ surely what Russia had done to the people of Aleppo or what they had done to flight MH17 or what they had done to the people of the Donbas was much worse than anything Qatar has managed in the run up to hosting a sports washing tournament. Yet I don’t remember anything like this level of protests and boycotts during the Russian World Cup or Sochi Olympics. Yes. Again, you have to add in that Qatar are utterly unsuited to host the competition playing a big part in why people are complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: Probably the most telling thing about this world cup so far for me... Friday night England game and none of my mates are in the pub watching it, they're all at home, not even talking about it in the various WhatsApp groups I'm in Yep. I'm in a few WhatsApp groups with different groups of mates and there has been zero world cup talk whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, sne said: Yes. Again, you have to add in that Qatar are utterly unsuited to host the competition playing a big part in why people are complaining. So because Russia has a ‘footballing pedigree’ we didn’t have the phenomenon of people boycotting watching that one 4 years ago? We can look past Russias treatment of gay people or their brutal attacks on free speech or their strategic invasion of neighbouring countries because they had a decent football infrastructure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, LondonLax said: So because Russia has a ‘footballing pedigree’ we didn’t have the phenomenon of people boycotting watching that one 4 years ago? We can look past Russias treatment of gay people or their brutal attacks on free speech or their strategic invasion of neighbouring countries because they had a decent football infrastructure? Nah for me it's more because Qatar buying this world cup is so more obvious and in your face, Russia were not suitable but they're weren't suitable in the same way that South Africa weren't suitable Qatar is a whole other level of ridiculous (and supposed cost of their corruption) Russia and South Africa are murmurings of wrong doings, Qatar is so brazen its like they're pointing and laughing while they do it 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, LondonLax said: So because Russia has a ‘footballing pedigree’ we didn’t have the phenomenon of people boycotting watching that one 4 years ago? We can look past Russias treatment of gay people or their brutal attacks on free speech or their strategic invasion of neighbouring countries because they had a decent football infrastructure? I didn't go to that WC either even thou Sweden were playing. Can't really take responsibility for how other people acted. If you think I'm defending the decision to host it in Russia I'm not. Think a lot has happened in the world since 2018 that makes people even more unhappy and likely to complain and raise their voices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Nah for me it's more because Qatar buying this world cup is so more obvious and in your face, Russia were not suitable but they're weren't suitable in the same way that South Africa weren't suitable Qatar is a whole other level of ridiculous (and supposed cost of their corruption) Russia and South Africa are murmurings of wrong doings, Qatar is so brazen its like they're pointing and laughing while they do it So we’re saying it’s not so much the human rights issues that people have a problem with (because we didn’t have a problem watching Russia), it’s more that Qatar made FIFAs corruption more obvious than their corruption when Russia won it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villa4europe Posted November 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, LondonLax said: So we’re saying it’s not so much the human rights issues that people have a problem with (because we didn’t have a problem watching Russia), it’s more that Qatar made FIFAs corruption more obvious than their corruption when Russia won it? That's it for me Qatar and the region in general are what they are, bigger than football and its not about to change FIFA selling the world cup for a few billion and continuously further driving football in to the gutter drives me away from the sport and in general is another nail in the coffin for football, football at the moment and in particular money in football is not in a good place I believe that people have a very big issue with FIFA and that is what is putting them off, the outrage at human rights problems in Qatar is pearl clutching because of that, come 2023 people Qatar will be back to being a far away place where your average person has no interest in going and they will be back to not caring... Right up until 2030 when Saudi Arabia buy the world cup and its back on the agenda I'll go one further, out of all the complaints about Newcastle what percentage of them do you think are genuinely related to concerns over the human rights record of SA and what percentage are more rooted in the idea that SA pumping billions in to that team kills the enjoyment of football for everyone else? Because I think deep down it's the latter that is the more pertinent reason but people just won't admit it - this world cup is the same 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, LondonLax said: So we’re saying it’s not so much the human rights issues that people have a problem with (because we didn’t have a problem watching Russia), it’s more that Qatar made FIFAs corruption more obvious than their corruption when Russia won it? I think pro- western bias creeps up on you, like most bias. You don't realise you're part of the problem until you really ask why you're upset with something. There's no shame in it either, just have a dig into why you feel the way you do, spin it around and ask if you'd feel the same if it was the other way around. Personally I've been very uncomfortable with major sporting events going to Russia and China and Qatar. However on reflection, Qatar are the least offensive by a distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, sne said: Doubt it really matters as I'm fairly sure it's already been decided but this WC being a failure on as many levels as possible is imo the only thing that could stop FIFA from putting the WC in Saudi Arabia in 2030 or 2034. Saudi would have been a better host time round. At least they have some footballing pedigree. Just ask the Argies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 As @villa4europe says, the issue is FIFA being corrupt and it being more and more blatant. Plus the spinelessness (is that a word?) of the football federations in being scared to call them out over it. We all know about the Middle East's view/laws on certain things. We knew that in 2010 or so when Qatar got the WC. The main issue is that they should have never been in contention for it. The fact they couldn't host the summer world cup in the summer was the icing on the shit cake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Xela said: The fact they couldn't host the summer world cup in the summer was the icing on the shit cake. They could, it was going to be wonderful football in air conditioned stadiums with free flowing beer. The funny thing is people never used to think about Qatar at all, and they've spent over a hundred billion to highlight to the world that it's a shit country run by a bunch of untrustworthy, bigoted god bothering words removed And they're crap at football. Edited November 25, 2022 by Davkaus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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