Sunderland

[chrisp65]

8 hours ago, PaulC said:

My question is would the girl have pressed charges if he wasn't a high profile footballer. I know what he did was wrong but he's going to go to prison for at least 5 years, yet lots of girls of 15 are having sex with boys of legal age. Whats the difference? 

Could it be that the 'boy' in this case was an adult male nearly twice her age ffs?

 

[dAVe80]

9 hours ago, PaulC said:

My question is would the girl have pressed charges if he wasn't a high profile footballer. I know what he did was wrong but he's going to go to prison for at least 5 years, yet lots of girls of 15 are having sex with boys of legal age. Whats the difference? 

There is no difference. I've read only this week, that an 18 year old got 4 and a half years for having sex with a girls of 12 and 14 (he was aged between 16 and 17 at the time).

[snowychap]

7 hours ago, LondonLax said:

I think it if is a case of one teenager of legal age sleeping with an underage teenager of a similar age then those cases don't seem to get perused.

One would hope not, too.

[PaulC]

Yes I know the difference but the law is the law. My opinion is Johnson did wrong and rightly has been sacked by his club, but I think if he gets a 5 years or more custodial sentence than that is too much. I am comparing this to an incident that occured a few weeks ago 100 yards from where i live. There was a child run over by a car and killed. The driver has been charged with wreckless driving. Her parents will never see their child again, that child had her life taken away from her by somebody who was driving carelessly. Now I don't know whether he will get a custodial sentence but I bet he won't serve as long as Johnson. Which crime is worse? Killing someone or what Johnson did. At least that girl can get on with the rest of her life now. 

[chrisp65]

7 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Yes I know the difference but the law is the law. My opinion is Johnson did wrong and rightly has been sacked by his club, but I think if he gets a 5 years or more custodial sentence than that is too much. I am comparing this to an incident that occured a few weeks ago 100 yards from where i live. There was a child run over by a car and killed. The driver has been charged with wreckless driving. Her parents will never see their child again, that child had her life taken away from her by somebody who was driving carelessly. Now I don't know whether he will get a custodial sentence but I bet he won't serve as long as Johnson. Which crime is worse? Killing someone or what Johnson did. At least that girl can get on with the rest of her life now. 

This driver in your anecdote, do we know if he specifically googled up the punishment for killing a child first on the internet, then selected one, invited them to meet up in a car park and then went out with intent and deliberately ran them over?

If he did, I'm fairly confident he'll get longer than the child sex offender Adam Johnson.

 

[PaulC]

So what he didn't intentionally kill her, the fact is she is dead because of the way he drove. Having been run over as a child by a speeding car its one of my bug bears people driving too fast. I was lucky too survive but that poor child wasn't. Sorry but no comparison for me between taking a life and what Johnson did.

Edited March 9, 2016 by PaulC

[ml1dch]

So because somebody else did something bad that means that Johnson should be given a more lenient sentence?

Interesting logic.

[PaulC]

No thats not what i meant but i think the one should be punished more than the other. I think Johnson has done a stupid thing which rightly cost him his career but I don't think he should be taken away from his child for many years. A 2 year suspended sentence or cummunity service would be more appropriate. Has this girl be pushed into prosecuting by her parents and lawyers because of the possibility of compensation??? I read she could up to £1mil in compensation. I don't fall for all this victim, my life is ruined stuff, theres an ulterior motive and its normally money.

Edited March 9, 2016 by PaulC

[lapal_fan]

7 minutes ago, PaulC said:

No thats not what i meant but i think the one should be punished more than the other. I think Johnson has done a stupid thing which rightly cost him his career but I don't think he should be taken away from his child for many years. A 2 year suspended sentence or cummunity service would be more appropriate. Has this girl be pushed into prosecuting by her parents and lawyers because of the possibility of compensation??? 

He didn't seem too concerned about his child when his girlfriend sent him a picture of her, to which he replied "she looks class" and immediately afterwards was texting this teenager trying to get in her pants.

I understand what you are saying Paul, a life lost is much worse than a 15 year old (who knows what is right/wrong/good/bad etc) who did what she wanted, albeit with pressure from a football player.. - but the thing with the car is that there was no intent.  I hope I never injure, let alone kill someone with my vehicle, but every time I hop into it, it is something that can harm someone, on purpose or by accident - human error and all that. 

Johnson researched what he did, knew it was wrong, and carried on regardless.  Had he not been stupid enough to google "age of consent" and then carry on with it anyway (wife a girlfriend who'd just given birth) he could probably have used the "I didn't know how old she is" excuse.

I think the important thing in this debate is intent.

Edited March 9, 2016 by lapal_fan

[ml1dch]

13 minutes ago, PaulC said:

A 2 year suspended sentence or cummunity service would be more appropriate. Has this girl be pushed into prosecuting by her parents and lawyers because of the possibility of compensation??? 

That's a pretty reprehensible accusation to make unless you have anything at all to back it up.. 

She was probably leading him on as well, the little tart.

I'd also say that your fairly blasé attitudes towards child sex laws are a bit disturbing.

[dAVe80]

12 minutes ago, PaulC said:

No thats not what i meant but i think the one should be punished more than the other. I think Johnson has done a stupid thing which rightly cost him his career but I don't think he should be taken away from his child for many years. A 2 year suspended sentence or cummunity service would be more appropriate. Has this girl be pushed into prosecuting by her parents and lawyers because of the possibility of compensation??? I read she could up to £1mil in compensation. I don't fall for all this victim, my life is ruined stuff, theres an ulterior motive and its normally money.

The idea that her parents only pressed the issue because of the prospect of making some money, is part of the reason so many sex offenders get away with their crimes. Take away any speculation and deal with the facts. A 28 year old man groomed, and had a sexual relationship with their 15 year old daughter. She is legally a child, and he deserves to be punished to full extent of the law.

[PaulC]

What???? I never said what he did wasn't wrong

[dAVe80]

1 minute ago, PaulC said:

What???? I never said what he did wasn't wrong

I don't dispute that. I just think any judgment of the girl and her family (and let's be honest, it's pure speculation) has to be put aside, and you have to deal with the facts.

[icouldtelltheworld]

12 hours ago, PaulC said:

My question is would the girl have pressed charges if he wasn't a high profile footballer. I know what he did was wrong but he's going to go to prison for at least 5 years, yet lots of girls of 15 are having sex with boys of legal age. Whats the difference? 

By all accounts, the girl had a rough time of it when knowledge of what happened spread around her school and the local area. Without Johnson being a local celebrity and very high profile player for the football team she supported, would rumours have spread so quickly, or been so emotionally distressing for the girl? Maybe not, but it's clear that the girl has had a rough time of it the last year and endured some horrific abuse. It's really not beyond comprehension that she didn't realise that she was a victim until after the event when the negative consequences became apparent. Yes, lots of 15 year olds sleep with lads who are 16+, but that really isn't comparable to a 28 year old multi millionaire footballer (who the 15 year old idolised) deliberately using his status and influence to groom an underage girl into engaging in sexual activity.

There are mitigating circumstances in cases such as this, such as the age gap between the two parties (Johnson is almost double her age), and  whether the guilty party can be judged to have abused a position of trust or responsiblity (definitely applies to Johnson IMO). So, if an 18 year old lad engaged in sexual activity with a 15 year old and charges were pressed, yes he would have a case to answer, but no he probably wouldn't be in line for anything like the sentence that Johnson will receive. The deliberate nature of Johnson's actions will be taken into account as well - he groomed her over a period of nearly two months and met up with the girl more than once, it's not like he can claim it was a momentary lapse of judgement or a mistake, he knew exactly what he was doing and what he wanted. He googled the age of consent and encouraged the girl to delete their messages, he knew she was in Year 10 and had only just turned 15, right from the start of their communications. 15 year old girls may well be physically ready for sex, but when it comes to sex with a high profile celebrity double their age, the vast majority are nowhere near emotionally ready. Regardless of how old she looked and may well have acted, the onus is on the adult to have a bit of self control and know that it's wrong. The age of consent is a difficult thing because not everyone matures at the same rate, but it's there to protect children and is necessary.

If you had a 15 year old daughter, and it turned out that Gabby had been messaging her sexually explicit things for 2 months, and had met her on more than one occasion in his car, engaging in sexual activity with her, would you honestly not press charges and want to see some justice for your child? Especially if rumours had got around the local area/school and your daughter was being subject to vile abuse, impacting her life in negative ways we can only imagine. Would you honestly be ok to see Gabby continue playing football, having people cheer his name and collecting £60,000 a week? Meanwhile your daughter, a previous season ticket holder and fanatic has become too terrified to attend matches in case people in the crowd recognise her and give her abuse. Johnson only thought of himself throughout this whole affair, and deserves everything he gets IMO.

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by icouldtelltheworld

[PaulC]

2 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

The idea that her parents only pressed the issue because of the prospect of making some money, is part of the reason so many sex offenders get away with their crimes. Take away any speculation and deal with the facts. A 28 year old man groomed, and had a sexual relationship with their 15 year old daughter. She is legally a child, and he deserves to be punished to full extent of the law.

Ok Dave you are probably right, its what a few people have said to me might be the reasons behjnd the prosecution, as it never occured to me she would get any compensation at first. Nobody knows!

[PaulC]

4 minutes ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

By all accounts, the girl had a rough time of it when knowledge of what happened spread around her school and the local area. Without Johnson being a local celebrity and very high profile player for the football team she supported, would rumours have spread so quickly, or been so emotionally distressing for the girl? Maybe not, but it's clear that the girl has had a rough time of it the last year and endured some horrific abuse. It's really not beyond comprehension that she didn't realise that she was a victim until after the event when the negative consequences became apparent. Yes, lots of 15 year olds sleep with lads who are 16+, but that really isn't comparable to a 28 year old multi millionaire footballer (who the 15 year old idolised) deliberately using his status and influence to groom an underage girl into engaging in sexual activity.

There are mitigating circumstances in cases such as this, such as the age gap between the two parties (Johnson is almost double her age), and  whether the guilty party can be judged to have abused a position of trust or responsiblity (definitely applies to Johnson IMO). So, if an 18 year old lad engaged in sexual activity with a 15 year old and charges were pressed, yes he would have a case to answer, but no he probably wouldn't be in line for anything like the sentence that Johnson will receive. The deliberate nature of Johnson's actions will be taken into account as well - he groomed her over a period of nearly two months and met up with the girl more than once, it's not like he can claim it was a momentary lapse of judgement or a mistake, he knew exactly what he was doing and what he wanted. He googled the age of consent and encouraged the girl to delete their messages, he knew she was in Year 10 and had only just turned 15, right from the start of their communications. 15 year old girls may well be physically ready for sex, but when it comes to sex with a high profile celebrity double their age, the vast majority are nowhere near emotionally ready. Regardless of how old she looked and may well have acted, the onus is on the adult to have a bit of self control and know that it's wrong. The age of consent is a difficult thing because not everyone matures at the same rate, but it's there to protect children and is necessary.

If you had a 15 year old daughter, and it turned out that Gabby had been messaging her sexually explicit things for 2 months, and had met her on more than one occasion in his car, engaging in sexual activity with her, would you honestly not press charges and want to see some justice for your child? Especially if rumours had got around the local area/school and your daughter was being subject to vile abuse, impacting her life in negative ways we can only imagine. Would you honestly be ok to see Gabby continue playing football, having people cheer his name and collecting £60,000 a week? Meanwhile your daughter, a previous season ticket holder and fanatic has become too terrified to attend matches in case people in the crowd recognise her and give her abuse. Johnson only thought of himself throughout this whole affair, and deserves everything he gets IMO.

 

Ok well explained, I'll leave it at that.

[StefanAVFC]

14 minutes ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

If you had a 15 year old daughter, and it turned out that Gabby had been messaging her sexually explicit things for 2 months, and had met her on more than one occasion in his car, engaging in sexual activity with her, would you honestly not press charges and want to see some justice for your child? Especially if rumours had got around the local area/school and your daughter was being subject to vile abuse, impacting her life in negative ways we can only imagine. Would you honestly be ok to see Gabby continue playing football, having people cheer his name and collecting £60,000 a week? Meanwhile your daughter, a previous season ticket holder and fanatic has become too terrified to attend matches in case people in the crowd recognise her and give her abuse. Johnson only thought of himself throughout this whole affair, and deserves everything he gets IMO.

 

Bad example, I think most Villa fans would be happy to see Gabby taken down

[icouldtelltheworld]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

Bad example, I think most Villa fans would be happy to see Gabby taken down

Haha! I thought that as I typed "people cheering his name"

He was at one time a local hero though, so is about the best comparison with Johnson

[HanoiVillan]

6 hours ago, PaulC said:

No thats not what i meant but i think the one should be punished more than the other. I think Johnson has done a stupid thing which rightly cost him his career but I don't think he should be taken away from his child for many years. A 2 year suspended sentence or cummunity service would be more appropriate. Has this girl be pushed into prosecuting by her parents and lawyers because of the possibility of compensation??? I read she could up to £1mil in compensation. I don't fall for all this victim, my life is ruined stuff, theres an ulterior motive and its normally money.

Eurgh eurgh eurgh eurgh. 

In two sentences you've gone from something you've read somewhere, which probably isn't accurate anyway, then turned that into disbelieving the victim and claiming that most victims of sexual assault are simply running a basic con. 

Have a word with yourself. 

[terrytini]

On ‎06‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 18:58, Genie said:

It was utter madness for Villa not to move for big Sam earlier this year.

Local

Available

Experienced

Still can't fathom it.

I have a strange feeling we will be saying that again soon about Moyes, Pearson, Rodgers, ...however unpopular they may be with some (myself included !)