The Randy Lerner thread

[darrenm]

I also can't imagine Lambert taking the job if the outlook was that he'd have to perennially sell his best players and then scrimp around whichever players got offered to us below the set transfer and wage limit. There must have been something to entice Lambert here. He was doing well with Norwich and his stock was too high to come to a club which would just be relegation fodder every year. He wouldn't want eventual inevitable relegation on his CV. Therefore I can only think that Lerner promised Lambert that once finances were in order he'd be allowed to spend bigger. That or it was agreed we'd try and build back up the Dortmund way, gradually increasing the spend in-line with buying and selling better players.

[foreveryoung]

Nice thought darrenm. It'll keep ya going. My thought is, like I've said previous, we are now a development club. We aren't gonna waste our time on these players if only to replace them with big signings when we start becoming profitable and winning??

[Big_John_10]

Historically clubs finish roughly in the league where their revenue suggests they should ours suggests mid table so guess where we should finish..... I go back to my original point no owner should have to fund a club and clubs should only spend what they receive

I don't remember too many hoping our new billionaire owner would never spend any of his own money when he first bought the club.

We have mid table revenue thanks to our owner and I'd be surprised if we haven't dropped lower when last seasons figures are released. And it's not like we're finishing mid table is it? The last two years have been the worst we've ever had in the premier league so we haven't even been able to manage what you say historically most clubs do.

[peterms]

I also can't imagine Lambert taking the job if the outlook was that he'd have to perennially sell his best players and then scrimp around whichever players got offered to us below the set transfer and wage limit. There must have been something to entice Lambert here. He was doing well with Norwich and his stock was too high to come to a club which would just be relegation fodder every year. He wouldn't want eventual inevitable relegation on his CV. Therefore I can only think that Lerner promised Lambert that once finances were in order he'd be allowed to spend bigger. That or it was agreed we'd try and build back up the Dortmund way, gradually increasing the spend in-line with buying and selling better players.

 

Yes, that's reasonable.

 

Against that, you could argue that Lambert could raise his profile and improve his reputation even if medium term prospects here were poor.  He's already done so.  I don't suggest that his plan is to get out quick, just saying that he doesn't necessarily depend on future spending to enhance his own reputation.

[Big_John_10]

I don't think he came here because he was promised big funds after a couple of years of slumming it.

I'm sure his salary is higher here, it's more of a high profile job, even with restrictions there's more potential here than Norwich and I think he'd need a club like us before getting a big job.

[Macca1888]

I think people need to be a bit more organic with their thinking.  There are all sorts of scenarios that could arise with Villa both as a business and as a football club, nothing is set in stone in football.  The way we are viewed as a football club now could be very different to how we are viewed by Christmas.  The way we are viewed as a club by the end of this season could be very different to how we are viewed in one, two or three seasons' time.  The same applies to our funding, revenues and transfer spend.  

[lexicon]

That's how you have to do it if you aren't bankrolled by multi-billionaires - nurture talent, sell a big asset and improve the squad as a whole with the profits. Rinse. repeat. 

[Rob182]

I'm sat next to a Man Utd fan at work who says he's a close friend of Ashley Young, and that Young loves Villa and didn't want to leave. Apparantly it was Randy who made him leave, because he wanted the money.

Obviously BS because Young could have not signed for Man Utd.... but... If Randy had a say in getting rid of Young for the money we did... Well done Randy!

It's looking like a great piece of business, Young is looking like half the player he was in 08/09.

[Morpheus]

What if he hadn't found Benteke?

 

With respect to our other players Benteke is our biggest asset by a very large margin and i would hazard a guess that the extent of Benteke's success has even surprised Lambert. You will also have to consider when Benteke is sold will Lambert be given all revenue from that sale? I would doubt it.

 

If you look at our other players would any of them come anywhere near the profit margin that hopefully Benteke is going to bring to the club and will Lambert be able to find another such player?

 

Thats the difficulty with your scenario Lexicon. It's nearly impossible to keep finding such players especially when you factor in the financial constraints within the club. 

[Panto_Villan]

Morpheus - the Dortmund model won't work if you assume that the owner won't give the club all the money from selling their best player, but it's hardly surprising you'll have a bad opinion of someone if you assume the worst of them all the time. Essentially you're criticising the management for doing something they've not yet done and may very well not do. You're probably right that Benteke is a cut above what we'll usually find, but Tottenham have shown a good example of how you can build a squad with the money from a single player. 

 

It's also not really fair to say Benteke doesn't count as a success because it'd be hard to repeat the feat - the fact is, we bought Benteke and he's awesome. Maybe it was luck or maybe it was good judgement, but it's impossible to know and either way it has worked out for us.

[Panto_Villan]

Big John - as you're continually claiming we've slipped down the revenue league comparative to other clubs around us, please can you provide the league's financial data for the 2005/2006 season when Randy took over? I'd be interested to verify your claims. The Deloitte money leagues only show the top 20 international clubs for that period but have extended to top 40 in more recent times.

 

Let's have a look at the information I have available, though. At the moment, the teams above us in revenue according to the Deloitte Money League for 2011/2012 are:

 

1. Manchester United

2. Chelsea

3. Arsenal

4. Manchester City

5. Liverpool

6. Tottenham Hotspur

7. Newcastle United

8. Everton

9. Aston Villa

 

In 2005-2006, just before Randy took over, the top English teams in the money league. This is only a top-20 list, so it's impossible to know who is in position 9.

 

1. Manchester United

2. Chelsea

3. Arsenal

4. Liverpool

5. Newcastle United

6. Tottenham Hotspur

7. Manchester City

8. West Ham

9. ????????

 

In the best case scenario for your argument, we're in exactly the same spot - 9th - as when Randy took over. However in the previous year it was actually Everton who took the 8th spot instead of West Ham, so presumably they're actually in 9th and we were 10th or below. So he's hardly done a terrible job financially relative to our rivals.

 

Please either provide concrete evidence to the contrary or stop peddling lies about us falling behind our rivals under Lerner.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Panto_Villan

[Macca1888]

That's how you have to do it if you aren't bankrolled by multi-billionaires - nurture talent, sell a big asset and improve the squad as a whole with the profits. Rinse. repeat. 

It's what Spurs are doing.

[Big_John_10]

I'm sat next to a Man Utd fan at work who says he's a close friend of Ashley Young, and that Young loves Villa and didn't want to leave. Apparantly it was Randy who made him leave, because he wanted the money.

Obviously BS because Young could have not signed for Man Utd.... but... If Randy had a say in getting rid of Young for the money we did... Well done Randy!

It's looking like a great piece of business, Young is looking like half the player he was in 08/09.

This is what I mean when I sometimes say the defence of Lerner blows my mind.

You're praising him for forcing one of our best players out the club. Now firstly i don't believe this story one bit but if it was true how can you be happy with it? There are many reasons young has flopped at Man U but that doesn't mean he would have flopped if he's stayed. He was an exceptional talent for us.

[Big_John_10]

In regards to revenue 2 years before Lerner took over we were in the top 20 for revenue and I may be wrong but I thought that was pretty usual for us under Doug. Now yes we would have dropped a bit for that final season but let's not forget that was the end of Doug with a manager we all hated. This was an elderly owner with an awful manager who most wanted gone, and who some didn't mind if that meant his death.

So last year Lerner was probably around the same area that Doug was at his worst during the entire premiership history. 1 was hated 1 is defended. And I'll be amazed if last year hasn't seen us drop down even further when the figures are eventually released.

[Rob182]

Oh, I forgot the winky smiley.

It's obvious BS, but I wasn't being deadly serious.

Saying that, in his last season with us, he was pretty poor. Many of his crosses and corners were over hit. I remember some people wanting him dropped, whilst others wanted him to remain in the side as captain in an attempt to persuade him to stay.

[Zatman]

I'm sat next to a Man Utd fan at work who says he's a close friend of Ashley Young, and that Young loves Villa and didn't want to leave. Apparantly it was Randy who made him leave, because he wanted the money.

Obviously BS because Young could have not signed for Man Utd.... but... If Randy had a say in getting rid of Young for the money we did... Well done Randy!

It's looking like a great piece of business, Young is looking like half the player he was in 08/09.

 

good decision by Randy I say. he knows when a player is finished. maybe he is PL mystery scout

Edited September 30, 2013 by Zatman

[sharkyvilla]

Yeah what was it, £18m for Young with only one year left on his contract. Great business, that's why I would trust us to get it right when the bids start coming in for Benteke. There is little evidence to suggest that Lambert wouldn't be given all the money (if he wants it, of course).

[Dodgyknees]

Yeah what was it, £18m for Young with only one year left on his contract. Great business, that's why I would trust us to get it right when the bids start coming in for Benteke. There is little evidence to suggest that Lambert wouldn't be given all the money (if he wants it, of course).

Little evidence other than selling two wingers and bringing in one as a replacement. Or little as in 'as soon as the wage bill is down we will spend on wages, Randy doesn't mind the fee, just wages' which explains the 10m net spend this August.

Yeah.

[bannedfromHandV]

Morpheus - the Dortmund model won't work if you assume that the owner won't give the club all the money from selling their best player, but it's hardly surprising you'll have a bad opinion of someone if you assume the worst of them all the time. Essentially you're criticising the management for doing something they've not yet done and may very well not do. You're probably right that Benteke is a cut above what we'll usually find, but Tottenham have shown a good example of how you can build a squad with the money from a single player. 

 

It's also not really fair to say Benteke doesn't count as a success because it'd be hard to repeat the feat - the fact is, we bought Benteke and he's awesome. Maybe it was luck or maybe it was good judgement, but it's impossible to know and either way it has worked out for us.

 

Morpheus in unfounded pessimsm shocker

[AvfcTheObsession]

I really don't get it when I see Villa fans criticising Ashley Young from his time here. Yes, he hasn't been great for Man Utd and he's a proven diver.

 

When he was with us though I thought he was excellent as he was playing every week and stayed fit the majority of the time. I don't remember us moaning too much about his diving when it was for us either.

 

One of the most exciting players I've seen in the 15 years I've been going down the Villa.