mykeyb Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 There have been several posters who claimed we would have been worse off under Ellis than Lerner as under Ellis we would been relegated. As of a couple of posts up just look at the team we had last under Ellis and then compare it with the team that will take to the pitch tomorrow. The difference in ability is as bloody wide as the channel. Yes Lerner has spent millions but how on earth has he allowed so many players to leave the club with very little return. He is not a businessman and he certainly will never be successful in sports. However well intentioned he might have been he has been an absolute disaster for this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted January 11, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2013 When Lerner took over he said this "It is my belief and the basis for my bid to acquire Aston Villa Football club that it can compete at the highest level within the Premiership and in Europe" Good job. Laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) I agree with what Trent says about spending money. I cannot see Lerner buying the quality of player needed to keep us up. If he gives Lambert money it looks like it will be to buy players on the cheap and we already know where they get you because of where we are at the moment. Delboy made a good point too! All of the money we have wasted on Houllier and his staff, McLeish and his staff, as well as compensation for managers - it's a farce! He should have given £10m to Everton for Moyes and we would have been in a much healthier position over the last few years. And, the future wouldn't look so bloody bleak either! I think it's clear to everyone that Lerner is clueless as the owner of our football club, well, almost everyone. The anger over our current situation surely has to be directed at him. How is Lambert supposed to work with such restraints? Very few managers - if any - would be able to work under those conditions. I know he brought in young players in the summer but if he was only given £20m and has a threadbare squad what is he supposed to do? Especially when he has to pay them peanuts by Premier League standards. I bet Blackpool had players earning more than some of our lads, when they were in the Premier League! I admit to questioning Lambert's tactical nous at times but when you are working with shit you are not going to come out smelling too good are you?! I think that we are in a much worse situation now than we were when Ellis left. Sounds crazy, I know, but we at least the future wasn't so dark and gloomy back then as it is now. The club wasn't making the record losses that it is now - despite our record turnover - and arguably the playing staff were better then too. This was our squad for the 2005-2006 season: 1 Thomas Sorensen (Goalkeeper) 2 Mark Delaney (Defender) 3 Jlloyd Samuel (Defender) 4 Olof Mellberg (Defender) 5 Martin Laursen (Defender) 6 Gareth Barry (Midfielder) 7 Lee Hendrie (Midfielder) 8 Gavin McCann (Midfielder) 9 Juan Pablo Angel (Striker) 10 Milan Baros (Striker) 11 James Milner(Midfielder) 12 Steven Davis (Midfielder) 13 Stuart Taylor (Goalkeeper) 14 Eric Djemba Djemba (Midfielder) 15 Ulises De La Cruz (Defender/Midfielder) 16 Wilfred Bouma (Defender) 17 Peter Whittingham (Midfielder) 18 Aaron Hughes (Defender) 19 Liam Ridgewell (Defender) 20 Kevin Phillips (Striker) 21 Gary Cahill (Defender) 22 Luke Moore (Striker) 23 Patrik Berger (Midfielder) 24 Eirik Bakke (Midfielder) 25 Wayne Henderson (Goalkeeper) The numbers may be larger now but the quality is not as good! All I can see for us at the moment is relegation and I would be concerned about surviving in the Championship next season as well because the likes of Benteke and Weimann would be cherry-picked by Premier League clubs and Lerner - needing the money to compensate for having the likes of Ireland, N'Zogbia, Gabby, Given, Hutton etc still on the books (let's face it, who will take them off us on their salaries?) - would probably sell instantly. What kind of squad would we be left with then? A bunch of youngsters who have had the confidence drained out of them after relegating a famous club and a bunch of overpaid, underplayed, players who probably wouldn't give a toss what happened to the club anyway. If Randy Lerner doesn't care whether Villa are relegated or not, he should be actively making it is personal ambition to sell the club ASAP to someone with more knowledge of running a football club than he has. Otherwise, he will undoubtedly be the recipient of the same kind of protests that Ellis had to endure, although, Ellis was here to see the protests against him. Lerner would probably find out via text or email from Paul Faulkner! Edited January 11, 2013 by villarocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 This was our squad for the 2005-2006 season: 1 Thomas Sorensen (Goalkeeper) 2 Mark Delaney (Defender) 3 Jlloyd Samuel (Defender) 4 Olof Mellberg (Defender) 5 Martin Laursen (Defender) 6 Gareth Barry (Midfielder) 7 Lee Hendrie (Midfielder) 8 Gavin McCann (Midfielder) 9 Juan Pablo Angel (Striker) 10 Milan Baros (Striker) 11 James Milner(Midfielder) 12 Steven Davis (Midfielder) 13 Stuart Taylor (Goalkeeper) 14 Eric Djemba Djemba (Midfielder) 15 Ulises De La Cruz (Defender/Midfielder) 16 Wilfred Bouma (Defender) 17 Peter Whittingham (Midfielder) 18 Aaron Hughes (Defender) 19 Liam Ridgewell (Defender) 20 Kevin Phillips (Striker) 21 Gary Cahill (Defender) 22 Luke Moore (Striker) 23 Patrik Berger (Midfielder) 24 Eirik Bakke (Midfielder) 25 Wayne Henderson (Goalkeeper) The numbers may be larger now but the quality is not as good! I would swap that squad for our current one in a heart beat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I bet Lambert would too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Back in 2006 Lerner said: 'The way I see it, people don't need some self-important guy running around the place telling everyone he owns it. They need someone working as hard as possible to get the results they have been entrusted to get. If the fans don't see that you are going to lose their support.' 'I'm what you call the custodian. There have been plenty of custodians of Aston Villa since 1874 and if I can't make it work, I will do what the others did, move on and let someone else try.' 'People like me come and go. The fans will always own Aston Villa because they never leave.' Well if we are to judge him by his own words lets hope when we go tomorrow there is a big "For Sale" sign up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) All I can see for us at the moment is relegation and I would be concerned about surviving in the Championship next season as well because the likes of Benteke and Weimann would be cherry-picked by Premier League clubs and Lerner - needing the money to compensate for having the likes of Ireland, N'Zogbia, Gabby, Given, Hutton etc still on the books (let's face it, who will take them off us on their salaries?) - would probably sell instantly. What kind of squad would we be left with then? A bunch of youngsters who have had the confidence drained out of them after relegating a famous club and a bunch of overpaid, underplayed, players who probably wouldn't give a toss what happened to the club anyway. If Randy Lerner doesn't care whether Villa are relegated or not, he should be actively making it is personal ambition to sell the club ASAP to someone with more knowledge of running a football club than he has. Otherwise, he will undoubtedly be the recipient of the same kind of protests that Ellis had to endure, although, Ellis was here to see the protests against him. Lerner would probably find out via text or email from Paul Faulkner! I lot of sense in your post although I beleive that Lerner would be devastated if we were relegated - he is either in it for the money or because he truly wants Villa to succeed. I think the latter but he has gone about it in a very naive way. If it was the former, getting relegated would mean that he could kiss goodbye to his investment From what little I know, I believe that Lerner wishes to wipe the slate clean and start again. He wishes to rid the club of the highest earners (Given, Dunne, Warnock, Bent, Hutton, Ireland etc etc) and build a younger, leaner outfit - a little like a Norwich+ or maybe like the Everton model Lambert has bought into the project but has been surprised at 1) how hard it has been to move on the dead wood and 2) quite how poor both the expereinced and younger players here are. I also think that Lambert thought that funds would be a little more forthcoming than they have. The plan is that the pursestrings will be loosened as expensive deadwood is moved out and we build from there. Lerner is walking a tightrope - he feels that Given, NZog and Hutton were panic buys and the Bent was an expensive panic buy the season before. He seems to be waiting on the Southampton game to decide how much to invest - what a massive gamble. I also think that Lerner beleives that if we do go down Lambert would be able to bring us back up at the first attempt - again what an enormous gamble For me we are stuck with Lerner - I don't see buyers lining up around the block to buy. In fact, despite some ill-informed media stories (Daniel Storey this means you) from what I know Lerner has no intention of selling and is in this for the long haul I don't think Lerner is a bad guy, I don't think he came into this with the intention of making money - I beleive he is a well-intentioned bloke who has made quite a number of mistakes. The biggest is Faulkner who for me is a very very poor CEO. What is required is some proper honest communications (not Krulak-style propaganda) from the club and we could all understand and buy into the plan Edited January 11, 2013 by VillaCas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 1 Thomas Sorensen (Goalkeeper) 2 Mark Delaney (Defender) 3 Jlloyd Samuel (Defender) 4 Olof Mellberg (Defender) 5 Martin Laursen (Defender) 6 Gareth Barry (Midfielder) 7 Lee Hendrie (Midfielder) 8 Gavin McCann (Midfielder) 9 Juan Pablo Angel (Striker) 10 Milan Baros (Striker) 11 James Milner(Midfielder) 12 Steven Davis (Midfielder) 13 Stuart Taylor (Goalkeeper) 14 Eric Djemba Djemba (Midfielder) 15 Ulises De La Cruz (Defender/Midfielder) 16 Wilfred Bouma (Defender) 17 Peter Whittingham (Midfielder) 18 Aaron Hughes (Defender) 19 Liam Ridgewell (Defender) 20 Kevin Phillips (Striker) 21 Gary Cahill (Defender) 22 Luke Moore (Striker) 23 Patrik Berger (Midfielder) 24 Eirik Bakke (Midfielder) 25 Wayne Henderson (Goalkeeper) This squad wipes the floor with what we have now. Lerner and his continuing incompetence has even managed to get a worse squad together than what Ellis presided over. Way to go you fool!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 It's a sad they when your yern for a midfield that consists of Gavin McCann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Also people might want to check Evertons wages as they are not exactly paying Peanuts to some of their players up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 For all the money Lerner has spent at Villa he has completley negated it with his mis-management. A poor decision maker who seems to mess up everything he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Also people might want to check Evertons wages as they are not exactly paying Peanuts to some of their players up there But the point is we have a bigger wage bill than everton and consistantly out spend them yr after yr. Look at the difference between us. Something is very wrong with Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I lot of sense in your post although I beleive that Lerner would be devastated if we were relegated - he is either in it for the money or because he truly wants Villa to succeed. I think the latter but he has gone about it in a very naive way. If it was the former, getting relegated would mean that he could kiss goodbye to his investment From what little I know, I believe that Lerner wishes to wipe the slate clean and start again. He wishes to rid the club of the highest earners (Given, Dunne, Warnock, Bent, Hutton, Ireland etc etc) and build a younger, leaner outfit - a little like a Norwich+ or maybe like the Everton model Lambert has bought into the project but has been surprised at 1) how hard it has been to move on the dead wood and 2) quite how poor both the expereinced and younger players here are. I also think that Lambert thought that funds would be a little more forthcoming than they have. The plan is that the pursestrings will be loosened as expensive deadwood is moved out and we build from there. Lerner is walking a tightrope - he feels that Given, NZog and Hutton were panic buys and the Bent was an expensive panic buy the season before. He seems to be waiting on the Southampton game to decide how much to invest - what a massive gamble. I also think that Lerner beleives that if we do go down Lambert would be able to bring us back up at the first attempt - again what an enormous gamble For me we are stuck with Lerner - I don't see buyers lining up around the block to buy. In fact, despite some ill-informed media stories (Daniel Storey this means you) from what I know Lerner has no intention of selling and is in this for the long haul I don't think Lerner is a bad guy, I don't think he came into this with the intention of making money - I beleive he is a well-intentioned bloke who has made quite a number of mistakes. The biggest is Faulkner who for me is a very very poor CEO. What is required is some proper honest communications (not Krulak-style propaganda) from the club and we could all understand and buy into the plan Quite a long winded post based on no actual evidence of what Lerner is actually thinking. It's just a narrative you've made up yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggy_333 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 This man is ruining the club I love. We've got Southampton tomorrow and i honestly don't know if i can be bothered to go to the game even though i'd be wasting my season ticket. If the owner can't be bothered to save us from the mess that he's got us into then why should i waste my time and money going to support the team? Up til now i've tried so hard to stay positive and i honestly thought that January would see some form of repairing of our squad but as each day passes i feel more and more like it's not going to happen. I feel so negative and angry about MY team at the moment :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Quite a long winded post based on no actual evidence of what Lerner is actually thinking. It's just a narrative you've made up yourself. Thanks for your very insightful comments - really adds to the debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 You think this abysmal season so far is evidence that Lerner is learning from his mistakes? It's evidence that he's now making new ones. What mistakes has he made this season? - Hired Lambert which is what most people wanted at the time, and was a rated young manager. - Gave him £20m to spend in the summer - Let Lambert get on with the job of managing the football team. Thats the 3 things he has done this season, none of them bad. Previous seasons had obvious bad mistakes, but i don't think you can say he has done anything wrong this season yet. (of course, in 3 weeks time, that may have changed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Still insisting on cutting the wage bill when the squad is piss poor. You don't think that's a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Still insisting on cutting the wage bill when the squad is piss poor. You don't think that's a mistake? Hows QPR's wage bill? How they getting on? Big wages doesnt mean success. The right players bring success and whatever way you look at it - MON, Houllier, Mcleish and now Lambert have all failed to bring in the right players consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 The squad needs a complete and utter overhaul The 20 mill he gave Lambert in the summer doesn't even begin to scratch the surface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Oh god. The old worst case scenario again. Of course it's the right players. But the right players are not coming to a club like us on the wages Lowton, bennet, Westwood and Bowery are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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