blandy Posted May 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 10, 2012 In my view he has tried to do well in all aspects of the club. Where he has succeeded has almost universally been the stuff that isn't related to having a knowledge of football. He was able to rebuild the pub, rebuild the training ground, do the mosaic. I'm sure there are community programmes that I'm not fully au fait with as someone not locally based. All stuff you can throw money at and get it built. Where I think he has also tried in equal measure both financially and in good intention is to turn us around on the pitch. But he has found that harder to do. Firstly because it IS harder to turn a football team around than it is to lay bricks and mortar, but also because he had to learn that part of being an owner. He had to make mistakes and he has made those mistakes. But crucially for me he made them honestly and he did it with the club's interests at heart. .....[snip]... we're about to be free of the financial chains bought for us by MON and a then-inexperienced Randy Lerner. Let Randy start Villa project #2 and see what happens this time around. The whole thing was superbly put ( I would say that as I agree with every word, but one). The one bit I don't completely agree with is the "fickle" thing. People who are very anti, are that way because of evidence. They see the league position, the choice of 'eck, the non-attendance at games, the losses...etc. as evidence to back up their views. In that sense it's not fickle of them, but largely rational and fair.Equally, others such as yourself (presumably) see those factors and others not mentioned directly in your post as reason to draw a different conclusion. Like a split verdict in a jury. I think for myself, if he appoints another duffer as manager, I'd switch camps from supportive, but critical of some aspects, to "nope, he's not learnt, and not taken the right advice and it'd be best if someone else more capable could be found to take over. For all the will in the world, repeating errors and not learning would be a decisive factor. I do believe he has learnt from his mistakes, and learnt the hard way. ANd I also believe that (as is the case with most football related stuff) much, but my no means all of the criticism is a bit OTT and overly personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I have little faith in Randy learning from his mistakes due to the fact his NFL team seems to suffer from similar mistakes and that's a sport he does fully understand. BOF is right that all it would take is the right appoitment and a decent level of backing to be loved again. But that's the same with most people criticised. If Heskey had scored 20 goals we'd all be cheering his name. If Mcleish stays and gets us top 6 next week we'd be hopeful for the future under him. I'm also not sure there's much to suggest Randy will try to rebuild this club again. Wether Mcleish stays or goes will show a lot about Randy's long term thinking for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunthos Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Top post from BOF. I think for myself, if he appoints another duffer as manager, I'd switch camps This is about where I am at also, with the (sad) expectation that this is precisely what will happen. Randy's more extensive history running the Browns has much of the same character to it... there's a fair amount of evidence that he just doesn't know how to pick good people to run his businesses and/or manage those managers himself to get the best out of them. It would be nice if people could recognize the vast amount of good he has done for the club while taking him to task for his mistakes, but it seems as though those things won't be appreciated until long after he's gone, if ever. When you look around at the owners some teams have to put up with (Ken Bates, Venky's, Mike Ashley, the Glazers, David Gold, the revolving carousel of incompetence at Portsmouth and Rangers, etc., etc.), Randy's sins pale in comparison. Of course, if Randy continues to employ Eck and we go down next year, then all that good will have been wiped out at a stroke. And Lerner will deserve every bit of the stick he'll get in that circumstance, because it's completely avoidable. But even then... to ascribe ill-will or indifference on Lerner's part? Horse hockey. It's bright-line obvious that he's trying his best to do best for the club. Whether his best is good enough, we'll find out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 It's an ongoing assessment, you can come down on one side or the other. I base my judgements on his performance, not tattoo's and Ellis. Unlike a certain poster who's constantly gone on about those things for weeks and has seemingly (to me) let it cloud his judgement. Which is rather ironic really, as that's exactly the charge he's putting on others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 In my view he has tried to do well in all aspects of the club. Where he has succeeded has almost universally been the stuff that isn't related to having a knowledge of football. He was able to rebuild the pub, rebuild the training ground, do the mosaic. I'm sure there are community programmes that I'm not fully au fait with as someone not locally based. All stuff you can throw money at and get it built. Where I think he has also tried in equal measure both financially and in good intention is to turn us around on the pitch. But he has found that harder to do. Firstly because it IS harder to turn a football team around than it is to lay bricks and mortar, but also because he had to learn that part of being an owner. He had to make mistakes and he has made those mistakes. But crucially for me he made them honestly and he did it with the club's interests at heart. He ploughed millions in but it didn't quite get us there. Some can not get past the mistakes. To them he has made mistakes and that's enough to hang him. His biggest mistake was giving free financial reign to a manager because he thought it was the right way to go. He was wrong and he should be held accountable for it. Reading this forum you can see he absolutely is held accountable. But he wasn't doing it for anything other than to see us progress. We almost did. We almost cracked it. Now we're having to start again. He has made some poor managerial appointments but this season, by the skin of our teeth, we have gotten away with it once again. I've had this discussion earlier. At the moment there is a lot of ill-feeling towards Randy Lerner. The necessary tightening of the belt to avoid us 'doing a Leeds' is seen as being financially prudent while simultaneously being perceived as some kind of a lack of interest in the club. Well which is it? All it takes is one good appointment and this will turn around. Just one. Whether it be by hook or by crook, if the next guy he brings in gets it right then the fickle football fan might start to rationalise everything that has gone before as being somehow part of the bigger plan. And of course it will be. No matter who takes over next, they will be taking over a much smaller wage bill and they will be taking over a club at such a low ebb with such a gulf between the fans and the club that they would have to be an unmitigated disaster to fail to have any kind of positive impact on the place. I make the comparison because I think it is apt. Mike Ashley is still the buffoon with an expensive play thing and no real clue how to run it. But he jammied a good appointment and now it's all (or mostly) forgotten. I genuinely think Randy is one good appointment away from getting many on side. He just needs to go and do it. Granted, he might go and sign another McLeish and if he does then there'll be hell to pay. But he mightn't. And then what? All I'm saying is, we're about to be free of the financial chains bought for us by MON and a then-inexperienced Randy Lerner. Let Randy start Villa project #2 and see what happens this time around. :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 His biggest mistake was giving free financial reign to a manager because he thought it was the right way to go Is there actually any evidence that this was the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodigan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 BOF, excellent post, eloquently put. At the end of the day, the tightening of fiscal measures that we have seen this season, had to happen. that made it very difficult for a new manager to succeed, regardless of how good they are. even if you take eck out of the equation, in all likelihood, we would have done worst than last season with the squad we had, and certainly would not have been in the 'pushing for champions league' situation that we were in the seasons before that. if we had a great manager, that anger would have turned to RL, and he would have had to face up to it, while still carrying out the measures that he needed to do to ensure the financial stability of the club. by appointing Eck, he created a focal point for the fan's ire - for long enough to complete what he needed to. I think that he will come to an arrangement in the next couple of weeks, where the club will agree to part company with eck. Eck will be paid well for dealing with the situation with a jutting jaw and a decent demeanour throughout - Randy will make sure of that, which I think is the correct thing to do. What we will then have will be a new manager, who will have the strong support of the fans, a grace period, and the ability to build a squad, where those remaining players are either cheap, or established first team players. He can then ensure that the bigger contracts go to those who are going to be certain starters, and not to squad players, that aren't going to regularly play. The new manager will mean that we will keep our marquee players, bent, ireland, zog for another season, and will hopefully be able to turn the squad that we have back into one playing attractive football. I, for one, am optimistic that the future looks bright... i may be in the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Mike Ashley is still the buffoon with an expensive play thing and no real clue how to run it. But he jammied a good appointment and now it's all (or mostly) forgotten. Off topic but he didn't jammie an appointment, the whole structure of the club was changed and all the the dodgy characters were moved on, while the finances were brought under control. Exactly what's needed here. Half way there I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I still have a lot of time for Lerner. Great owner. Made a very very bad mistake this season. Needs to fix it immediately but it is still repairable. Not going to e if he lets it fester anther season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Everyone 2nd guessing Lerners next move I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Damian Comolli wasn't at Villa Park on Sunday according to the man himself on TalkSport's Keys and Gray just. So all that talk about Randy inviting him to the game were absolute bollocks, don't get why people make this kind of stuff up. I have it on very good authority that he was there......so why would he lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Mike Ashley is still the buffoon with an expensive play thing and no real clue how to run it. But he jammied a good appointment and now it's all (or mostly) forgotten. Off topic but he didn't jammie an appointment, the whole structure of the club was changed and all the the dodgy characters were moved on, while the finances were brought under control. Exactly what's needed here. Half way there I hope. Agreed; he’s shown himself to be a smart operator than Lerner. Maybe he’s a better business man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdubber Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Randy needs to sort out his staff, starting with the Board. Faulkner is not the right man in the wrong job..... We need a board with a winning mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukedaw Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Anyone know if Lerner is in England?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Randy needs to sort out his staff, starting with the Board. Faulkner is not the right man in the wrong job..... We need a board with a winning mentality. we keep saying this, but the truth is that it's likely paul faulkner has delivered on all fronts for randy. i think the issue is that he probably shouldn't be CEO, if anything he should be CFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Anyone know if Lerner is in England?! He isn't at this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 And no sign of him being on his way as yet. Of course, he may do his normal Monday morning arrival thing........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Randy needs to sort out his staff, starting with the Board. Faulkner is not the right man in the wrong job..... We need a board with a winning mentality. we keep saying this, but the truth is that it's likely paul faulkner has delivered on all fronts for randy. i think the issue is that he probably shouldn't be CEO, if anything he should be CFO agreed, something people need to acknowledge. Where faulkner and Mcleish are concerned, no one knows the targets. For both it could have been reduce wage bill, dont get relegated, develop youth team and academy. For all we know Lerner may view them as successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Even when Alex McLeish was just a young man **** around in the Scottish countryside there was a government issue public warning notice about him and yet Lerner still went ahead and employed him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 13, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2012 Randy needs to sort out his staff, starting with the Board. Faulkner is not the right man in the wrong job..... We need a board with a winning mentality. we keep saying this, but the truth is that it's likely paul faulkner has delivered on all fronts for randy. i think the issue is that he probably shouldn't be CEO, if anything he should be CFO agreed, something people need to acknowledge. Where faulkner and Mcleish are concerned, no one knows the targets. For both it could have been reduce wage bill, dont get relegated, develop youth team and academy. For all we know Lerner may view them as successful. So how would you explain Faulkner's 'Europe' comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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