U.S. Politics

[villakram]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

That 0.4%, if that’s right, still equals over 100,000 dead people. Somebody’s done a really, really bad job to have that many and rising, fatalities from a virus that has a tiny-ish fatality rate.

Not an especially bad job, though certainly not a good job,  as the US is tracking lower than many other countries in terms of #dead/population at the current time. It will land squarely in the middle of the pack (Spain/France/Italy/Netherlands/UK/Sweden/Ireland etc. w/Germany at 3x better and S. Korea at ~30x better) based on the current trend extrapolated forward.

The flu does 0.1% give or take pretty much every year, and more so in bad flu years.

Yes, the covid numbers have been lowered by shutting everything down, but it's worthwhile to keep things in perspective.

Given the for-profit, scumbag nature of the US medical system, this is either somewhat miraculous or more likely says something fundamental about how the virus interacts within the human biosphere... or should it be how humans interact with the virus... hmmm.

[snowychap]

 

[villakram]

31 minutes ago, snowychap said:

 

While this is right wing political games, there are fundamental problems with mail-in voting. E.g., there is no way Sinn Fein would have dramatically altered Irish politics like they did if there was substantial mail-in voting, as the entire swing their way came in the last 2 weeks of campaigning... after many mail-in votes get submitted. 

Mail-in voting is a little like FFP, in that who it really helps versus who we're told it helps...

[snowychap]

7 hours ago, villakram said:

While this is right wing political games, there are fundamental problems with mail-in voting. E.g., there is no way Sinn Fein would have dramatically altered Irish politics like they did if there was substantial mail-in voting, as the entire swing their way came in the last 2 weeks of campaigning... after many mail-in votes get submitted. 

Mail-in voting is a little like FFP, in that who it really helps versus who we're told it helps...

All of that very much misses the point.

Edit:

Anyway, his response:

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by snowychap

[Stevo985]

That's not stifling free speech, Donald. It's rightly labelling bollocks as bollocks

[StefanAVFC]

8 hours ago, villakram said:

While this is right wing political games

You should have just stopped there. The rest just explains that parties need to campaign differently. it's not even remotely similar to anything Trump is saying. 

[sne]

No doubt he would use it to his advantage towards his faithful followers but it would still be entertaining if he was banned from Twitter.

Not sure Tik-Tok would be his ideal media.

[villakram]

5 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

You should have just stopped there. The rest just explains that parties need to campaign differently. it's not even remotely similar to anything Trump is saying. 

Perhaps, but what will the result be? 

Pro-Trump: Mail in voting is bad.

Anti-Trump: Mail is voting is good.

Already happening too... and mail-in voting has clear cases where it is of use. Thoughtful discussions have utility, even in these clickbait times.

[StefanAVFC]

No idea what you're on about to be frank.

I support any process that allows more people to be able to vote. Much like I support PR, regardless if it means a party I detest get more seats. I am pro-democracy. 

Being against it, as Trump is, is just so he can dislegitimise the entire election if he loses. 

[Straggler]

Widespread mail in voting is unequivocally good during a pandemic.  The alternative is liable to spread the disease and put huge numbers of people at risk. The politics of Ireland outside of a pandemic have as much relevance to the USA today as senators voting in ancient Rome.

Trump doesn't want it because he thinks it is bad for him and he gives zero shits about making stuff up to get what he wants. This story is really not a hard one.

[HanoiVillan]

I think on balance I don't agree with @villakram's argument here, but to give him his due, it's not completely without merit. If the majority of voters only tune into elections in the last few days, then postal deadlines set prior to that will not capture rapidly changing sentiments among the electorate (and some voters may experience 'buyers remorse'). However, I think you can argue that a] voters mailing in ballots are more likely to be either more partisan (and hence less susceptible to regret over their vote), more informed or both, and b] you could solve the problem by allowing postal votes with postmarks up to and including election day, as California does (though of course that denies the media their high-drama election night special).

I don't see much alternative in a pandemic though; it shouldn't be the case that people have to risk death to vote (and studies suggest that in-person voting in Wisconsin's election a few weeks ago aggravated spread of the virus in that state).

[villakram]

3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I think on balance I don't agree with @villakram's argument here, but to give him his due, it's not completely without merit. If the majority of voters only tune into elections in the last few days, then postal deadlines set prior to that will not capture rapidly changing sentiments among the electorate (and some voters may experience 'buyers remorse'). However, I think you can argue that a] voters mailing in ballots are more likely to be either more partisan (and hence less susceptible to regret over their vote), more informed or both, and b] you could solve the problem by allowing postal votes with postmarks up to and including election day, as California does (though of course that denies the media their high-drama election night special).

I don't see much alternative in a pandemic though; it shouldn't be the case that people have to risk death to vote (and studies suggest that in-person voting in Wisconsin's election a few weeks ago aggravated spread of the virus in that state).

Thanks for appreciating and making a more nuanced point.

I doubt that the pandemic will be the same type of issue come November. Now, were we still in this lockdown for some reason, then it makes some sense, but only because the election day is prescribed in law and is very difficult to move, apparently.

I do think that there is an intrinsic value in having a citizen make a conscious effort to cast a vote, especially given the utterly appalling level of politicians who are continuously elected. A better system would increase the election day voting window, i.e., starts Fri at 0900, ends Sunday at 1800 or some such, and move to proportional representation.

Also, it's important to remember the astonishing levels of fookery engaged in over here. Where you live is where the card is mailed. Prove you live there?!? Oh, you moved and didn't tell us, etc., etc. Is there a track and trace system, because who counts does matter. The labor laws over here render a signifiant proportion of the populous particularly mobile and residing predominantly in the lower half of the wealth distribution, they already get reemed. This is venturing away from issues particular to mail-in, but it's not clear that widespread adoption would necessarily improve things. 

[maqroll]

They are burning down a police precinct building in Minneapolis.

Edited May 29, 2020 by maqroll

[maqroll]

 

[Keyblade]

Oh my God

 

[Ponky]

Is it time for the 25th yet?

[LondonLax]

Things are going well in the US...

[sne]

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Oh my God

 

Remember when he called people protesting the fact they couldn’t get a hair cut “very good people”. 
 

I wonder what the main difference between those protestors and these protestors are. 

I just can’t put my finger on it. Think Stevo, dammit. THINK.

[chrisp65]

Where have all the fat white guys in cammo with automatic weapons gone?

Bloody bad luck they’ve been prepping all their lives for this and it happens just when they can’t get a haircut.

If that’s not a deep state cuck conspiracy I don’t know what is...